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Jun 10 2012
By: Intangible_Truth Lombax Warrior 179 posts
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Death Only By Supers: What Are Your Thoughts?

52 replies 1144 views Edited Jun 10, 2012

A lot of gamers, including myself, are on the fence about this system. I don’t think I’m at a place to make a fair judgment on this mechanic because I have not played the game myself, but I suppose it doesn’t hurt to throw some observations and ideas around. I mean, that’s what we’re here for, right?! Whether we as a community make or break the game, it’s always productive to express our ideas! Basically, what are your thoughts on this system? If it doesn’t sit well with you, do you think there’s a way to expand on it or should intense alterations be made?

I think it’s a system that could work, though I feel at it’s current state it could be something that gets stale quickly and might not have the legs for competitive play. In a 1v1 match, level 2 and 3 Supers would be virtually useless as they cater to the idea of wiping out more than one opponent. As such, I feel 1v1 matches would just be a race between whoever can get to a level 1 Super first. Do you guys feel this eliminates some of the depth and strategy that the Super system is supposed to implement, whatever that may be?

There’s also a lot of talk within the community about including some sort of health system. I’m not too fond of the percentage mechanic in SSB as it promotes camping. I think a more traditional system where your HP is depleted would make for better play. My idea: I notice that the L2 button has no function. What if there was a defensive Super mechanic of some sort?

Absorbing an offensive Super with a defensive Super gives you health! You can charge your defensive Super (maybe by holding L2 and tapping on a face button to increase the speed of the charge) to a level 1 or 2 Super. Level 3 offensive Supers will always be unblockable. The drawback: charging your defensive Super depletes your Super meter. This, and you can still only score by a Super K.O. or by fully depleting someone’s health bar, percentage points, or what have you. While I feel this concept rewards both offensive and defensive players to an extent, my problem with this is it might be too complicated of an idea and it could lead to some really problematic balancing issues.

Finally, just some observations I made while watching videos. I noticed in a video how Kratos’ level 1 Super wiped out PaRappa while he was in the middle of a level 2 Super. I’m sure they’re still working on Super priorities. Also, I think it was GameTrailers who mentioned this, but when your Super meter is charged to level 2, for example, you can’t perform a level 1 Super. How do you guys think this could be solved? Maybe by holding the R2 button and mapping out Supers to a respective face button (level 1 to square, level 2 to triangle, level 3 to circle, etc.)?

Remember, these are just my ideas and observations. You’re welcome to agree or disagree, expand or simplify, and express ideas of your own! While it may be too early for a topic like this, who knows if or when we’ll actually get our hands on the game. By then, it might be too late for our ideas to make a significant impact on the final product. Again, I think this current system could work, but it doesn’t hurt to give gamers more options for competitive play! I’m sure some of you are experienced competitive players and are beaming with ideas. Have fun and let’s help SuperBot bust through the industry doors with a bang!

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: Death Only By Supers: What Are Your Thoughts?

May 22, 2012
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Treasure Hunter
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Re: Death Only By Supers: What Are Your Thoughts?

May 22, 2012

Simply put- I don't like the idea. The super attacks sound like a fun mechanic, but I don't like the idea of them being the end-all-be-all in deciding a match. That practically takes any skill out of the rest of the match. In a game like SSB, while you may have characters that are statistically just plain better than the rest, a skilled player can still change those odds. In this case, as long as you have a powerful character with a Super, you don't seem to have any problems. Balancing the characters is key if this is the route they plan on taking. Honestly, I'm not opposed to a SSB-esque health system. This just feels like a bad attempt to distance themselves from being a SSB clone. It's not a bad thing to take some notes from a flagship Nintendo series with an enormous (and loyal) following.


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Fender Bender
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Re: Death Only By Supers: What Are Your Thoughts?

May 24, 2012

^^...Agreedc100% , They shouldn't be a "finished" move, otherwise it will basically be a race to the 1st one to get to the finisher. Don't get me wrong the idea is great, and I honestly think they did it to make a tad bit unique from Super Smash Bros...but It's kinda necessary for a death by items, or just normal attacks..I really hope they change this feature...Maybe they'll check their most loyal community right here 1st for feedback!


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Gaming Beast
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Re: Death Only By Supers: What Are Your Thoughts?

May 25, 2012

I posted a (rather lengthy) explanation of the "death only by supers" mechanic in another thread, and I'll just repost it here. Basically, I like this fighting system a LOT, for the reasons I've specified below.

IceColdKilla44 wrote:

I like this system from what I've seen. A lot. Why? Because it does something that Smash Brothers' "percentage" system does not: It actually rewards players who fight. Let's compare the two fighitng systems, assuming we're playing 5-life stock battle on both.

In Smash Bros, your objective is to be the last man standing and to keep your percentage as close to zero as possible. The higher your percentage gets, the easier you become to kill (because even a light punch can kill someone at 200% very easily). Since you're more likely to get hit (and have your percentage rise up) if you fight people, the best strategy would be to just wait on the side and let the other 3 people fight each other until 1 opponent is left, most likely with only one life left and a high percentage. At this point, you don't even need to strategize. Just button mash; a weak punch is enough to make him go flying. So in a percentage system like Smash Bros, people who fight are punished and made weaker, but people who don't fight are rewarded with enemies that are easier to kill.

In Battle Royale's fight system, it looks like someone with 1 life has an equal chance of winning the match as someone with 5. If I just go and hide on one side of the map and wait for the other 3 to duke it out, I'm actually at a disadvantage. I may still have my 5 lives vs their one or two, but the key difference is that they've been filling up their super meter for super attacks, and I have not. If I just stand on the side and don't fight, I can't build up my super meter, and therefore I can't kill my opponent. Both players actually have to fight each other with their skill to build up their supers and EARN their kills fair and square, instead of the game giving them a huge handicap. Even if your opponent has already used up all his supers on other players, he is still at no disadvantage once it's just you vs. him. The two of you would just start from square 1 and build up your super bars for kills.

Battle Royale's system rewards people who fight and survive. Smash Bros. system rewards people who survive, but punishes those who fight. That's why I think Battle Royale's fighting system has a HUGE advantage from a competitive standpoint; It just doesn't make sense to punish players who fight in a fighting game.


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First Son
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Re: Death Only By Supers: What Are Your Thoughts?

May 25, 2012

IceColdKilla44 wrote:

I posted a (rather lengthy) explanation of the "death only by supers" mechanic in another thread, and I'll just repost it here. Basically, I like this fighting system a LOT, for the reasons I've specified below.

IceColdKilla44 wrote:

I like this system from what I've seen. A lot. Why? Because it does something that Smash Brothers' "percentage" system does not: It actually rewards players who fight. Let's compare the two fighitng systems, assuming we're playing 5-life stock battle on both.

In Smash Bros, your objective is to be the last man standing and to keep your percentage as close to zero as possible. The higher your percentage gets, the easier you become to kill (because even a light punch can kill someone at 200% very easily). Since you're more likely to get hit (and have your percentage rise up) if you fight people, the best strategy would be to just wait on the side and let the other 3 people fight each other until 1 opponent is left, most likely with only one life left and a high percentage. At this point, you don't even need to strategize. Just button mash; a weak punch is enough to make him go flying. So in a percentage system like Smash Bros, people who fight are punished and made weaker, but people who don't fight are rewarded with enemies that are easier to kill.

In Battle Royale's fight system, it looks like someone with 1 life has an equal chance of winning the match as someone with 5. If I just go and hide on one side of the map and wait for the other 3 to duke it out, I'm actually at a disadvantage. I may still have my 5 lives vs their one or two, but the key difference is that they've been filling up their super meter for super attacks, and I have not. If I just stand on the side and don't fight, I can't build up my super meter, and therefore I can't kill my opponent. Both players actually have to fight each other with their skill to build up their supers and EARN their kills fair and square, instead of the game giving them a huge handicap. Even if your opponent has already used up all his supers on other players, he is still at no disadvantage once it's just you vs. him. The two of you would just start from square 1 and build up your super bars for kills.

Battle Royale's system rewards people who fight and survive. Smash Bros. system rewards people who survive, but punishes those who fight. That's why I think Battle Royale's fighting system has a HUGE advantage from a competitive standpoint; It just doesn't make sense to punish players who fight in a fighting game.


I agree with this totally.

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: Death Only By Supers: What Are Your Thoughts?

Jun 1, 2012

I agree Weidleface. I have not seen enough of the game (or played enough of it for that matter) to know if this mechanic will work, so I know my observation is not entirely sensible. While I do believe it is a welcomed attempt at being different, I agree that at present it doesn’t seem like a very strong one, and in the end, this game will find itself caught in direct competition with Super Smash Bros. Whether SuperBot refuses to acknowledge this or not won’t matter because it will be unavoidable. It’s been nothing but comparisons for the past few weeks with the VERY little information that we’ve been given thus far. We’ve seen examples of this in both the gaming community and gaming media. Imagine once the game is released...

The disadvantage that PSABR is going to be at is that SSB already has a MUCH larger following and has already been praised for its fighting mechanic. Perhaps All-Stars doesn’t need an EXACT replica of the percentage system (I’m personally not too fond of it as I mentioned in my first post), but at the very least something similar to it so that they can also attract gamers who thoroughly enjoy the latter. At least give them the option. It doesn’t have to be the default mechanic. A LOT of gamers, both casual and hardcore, will be expecting this game to play a certain way. They should include a percentage and/or health system just as a failsafe. I mean, an FPS without iron sights or a TPS without a cover system might be looked down upon within their respective communities. Hopefully whatever SuperBot is brewing will work, but I think it could only be a win/win situation for them if they were to include a system that has already worked in the past and is loved by many.

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I Only Post Everything
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Re: Death Only By Supers: What Are Your Thoughts?

Jun 10, 2012

I honestly enjoy it. Mainly because it makes me need to worry about things that can happen at any time. For instance if im playing as drake and im beating the crap out of fat princess in one corner, We could BOTH be destroyed by Sweet Tooths super(s). And to me that adds a since of that every one can win, that it relys on fun and well placed tactics and not with just being able to knock people off the map like in Smash Brothers. Since to do a super its just one button press. Sure, you have to learn what all the supers are but this might just be me but isnt that kind of fun?

The lvl 3 supers are pretty OP but they said you can counter super or something. If you do a super right when someone does a lvl 3 (or any super, and keep in mind you have to be next to them or where the super would hit) it will cancel both supers.

Overall, i dont mind it.

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I Only Post Everything
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Re: Death Only By Supers: What Are Your Thoughts?

Jun 10, 2012

Intangible_Truth wrote:

Update on press release:

A few weeks ago, PSABR debuted with relatively positive reception from the press, despite the inevitable claims of being a SSB “clone.” With the little amount of time the press had with the game, a good majority of them found the game to be fun, but none had enough time with the game to determine whether or not the gameplay had deep competitive offerings. E3 just passed and the press once again had hands-on time with the game, but this time, reception for the battle system was not quite as encouraging. While most critics still acknowledged the game for being fun, their doubts about the competitive quality of the battle system continue to grow. Some critics went so far as to say that PSABR currently lacks the depth and tactical value present in the SSB series:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/editorials/reviews/previews/9721-E3-Preview-PlayStatio...

http://www.gamezone.com/products/playstation-all-stars-battle-royale/previews/e3-2012-playstation-al...

http://gamerant.com/playstation-allstars-battle-royale-demo-preview-e3-2012-benk-153263/

http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/06/05/e3-2012-ps-all-stars-beating-down-drake-using-a-vita

The good news is that most critics found the game to be fun! The bad news, however, is that most critics felt the game was lacking a robust competitive battle system. Still, it’s hard to evaluate gameplay, especially the entirety of a fighting mechanic, in such a short amount of time, so maybe everyone just needs more time with the game (hopefully we’ll see a beta). What do you guys think? If SuperBot wants to compete with SSB on a competitive level (which unfortunately they are going to be forced to), do you think they need to reevaluate their battle system in search for something deeper? While a lot of people are opposed to the Super-only system, some are quite fond of it and are willing to give it a chance. Do you think SuperBot should consider including a ring out and/or health/percentage system after the mixed reception PSABR has received?

On a positive note, some gamers out there are trying to strip down the battle system and from their observations are coming up with some pretty interesting gameplay strategies:

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/668999-playstation-all-stars-battle-royale/63048337

Whether they’re just grasping for straws in search for something more desirable, I don’t know. But it’s a worthwhile effort nonetheless!


The game is fun? Okay! Thats fantastic! Thats all i care about honestly. Im pretty easy to please when it comes to video games.

The competitive part i dont care all that much about. If me and my friends (or me online) can have a great time with just beating the snot at each other and trying to get the most supers and whatever thats fine.

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Sackboy
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Re: Death Only By Supers: What Are Your Thoughts?

Jun 10, 2012

Guys, Keep in mind that this is not the final product. They will change things ALOT before it is offically released.

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