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Wastelander
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Re: Dante´s infinite combo. Cheap or legit?

Dec 4, 2012

stelmoslight wrote:

BomB-RideR-14 wrote:

stelmoslight wrote:

Yes, but in a 1 v 1 situation, this is basically saying that once he has got you into this combo, he can keep going until he has built up a lvl 1, 2, or 3  (unless he drops it) and there's not a dang thing you can do about it.  I'm sorry, but that's not acceptable. 


I'm sorry but you are completely wrong about this. Please get your facts straight. This is NOT an infinite. You can only build up to 150 AP with this loop (180 AP with precise gun cancels, but I can't do that...you truly need to be an execution master to pull that off consistently).

 

Dante's Supers are among the most expensive in the game.

Level 1: 150 AP

Level 2: 400 AP

Level 3: 750 AP

 

Please explain to me how he can build up to 750 AP from a single combo that he can "keep going until" he gets to his level 3. There is an infinite prevention system that makes what you said completely impossible.


The point is that this is a means by which you can be trapped with no way out while Dante farms AP off of you until he can kill you.  Are you saying that characters should be allowed to simply hit you once and then keep you in a combo until that character can kill you?  Then every person using this character will learn to do this and only this and then what happens?  it becomes no fun for anyone because 90% of the battle, they are stuck in a combo that guarantees a kill at the end.  Let me ask you, is it fun for you to be trapped in another Dante's loop while you sit there and can do nothing about it unil you die?  That's a fair question, I think.  And you shouldn't complain.  I play Jak.  Jak has almost no combos and gains very little AP for the risks he takes.  And, as far as I have discovered, he can't combo into ANY of his supers. 

 


First of all, I'm not complaining...you are.

 

Second of all, Jak can combo into his supers if you know how (admittedly they are situational). He also has some setups you can perform that are inescapeable. Admittedly Jak needs a few buffs though.

 

Third, Jak does not equal Dante. Dante purely has to fight up close while Jak is a very good zoner. If Jak gained as much AP from a range as Dante does when he is forced to get in close, there would be no balance. Dante has no tools to fight at a range.

 

What you are complaining about is Dante's one and only strength. His attacks are hugely unsafe and a third of his moveset is useless (triangle, gun attacks can only really be used for cancels). Dante has very few tools to work with. He is a PURE combo character. His level 1 is awful outside of combos (you can very easily dodge roll between each of his slow attacks), his level 2 is about the equivalanet of Toro's level 1, and Dante's level 3 is the equivalent of Big Daddy's and Raiden's level 2.

 

Dante cannot just combo you and farm AP into a super just whenever he wants. It doesn't actually work the way you describe.

 

Dante starts out with 0 AP, so he needs to build 150 AP on the first attack (btw, multiple characters have 150 AP combos). He will build 150 AP from the first combo but he CANNOT combo into his first super. Second time he hits you, he can build up to 90 AP then kill you. Third hit, he can build another 90 AP making a total of 180 AP allowing to use his 150 AP costing super leaving him with 30 AP. Dante has to generate another 120 AP before getting his next level 1. Dante will not combo into super on his fourth hit. Dante needs to make 5 hits to win a 3 stock match.

 

I would like to point out that nearly all of Dante's attacks are extremely unsafe on whiff and block. If you block his attacks, you get a free punish. If he misses you, you get a free punish. Dante's attacks are more unsafe than any other character in the game. If you get hit by Dante, that is your fault and Dante reaps the rewards for his HUGE risks. Dante takes more risks than Jak, let me assure you.

 

Let me ask you this. What do you want to give Dante for having an extremely unsafe moveset in which he has over characters with safe movesets after taking away the only thing that makes Dante mid tier? Seriously, I challenge you to go into the training mode and start pressing square attacks then hold block. Come back and tell me how long it takes for Dante to go into his block animation. If you don't do this, then you cannot see my argument at its fullest. You bait out Dante's attacks, you can punish him with a super.

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Sackboy
Registered: 09/22/2012
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Re: Dante´s infinite combo. Cheap or legit?

Dec 4, 2012

BomB-RideR-14 wrote:

stelmoslight wrote:

BomB-RideR-14 wrote:

stelmoslight wrote:

Yes, but in a 1 v 1 situation, this is basically saying that once he has got you into this combo, he can keep going until he has built up a lvl 1, 2, or 3  (unless he drops it) and there's not a dang thing you can do about it.  I'm sorry, but that's not acceptable. 


I'm sorry but you are completely wrong about this. Please get your facts straight. This is NOT an infinite. You can only build up to 150 AP with this loop (180 AP with precise gun cancels, but I can't do that...you truly need to be an execution master to pull that off consistently).

 

Dante's Supers are among the most expensive in the game.

Level 1: 150 AP

Level 2: 400 AP

Level 3: 750 AP

 

Please explain to me how he can build up to 750 AP from a single combo that he can "keep going until" he gets to his level 3. There is an infinite prevention system that makes what you said completely impossible.


The point is that this is a means by which you can be trapped with no way out while Dante farms AP off of you until he can kill you.  Are you saying that characters should be allowed to simply hit you once and then keep you in a combo until that character can kill you?  Then every person using this character will learn to do this and only this and then what happens?  it becomes no fun for anyone because 90% of the battle, they are stuck in a combo that guarantees a kill at the end.  Let me ask you, is it fun for you to be trapped in another Dante's loop while you sit there and can do nothing about it unil you die?  That's a fair question, I think.  And you shouldn't complain.  I play Jak.  Jak has almost no combos and gains very little AP for the risks he takes.  And, as far as I have discovered, he can't combo into ANY of his supers. 

 


First of all, I'm not complaining...you are.

 

Second of all, Jak can combo into his supers if you know how (admittedly they are situational). He also has some setups you can perform that are inescapeable. Admittedly Jak needs a few buffs though.

 

Third, Jak does not equal Dante. Dante purely has to fight up close while Jak is a very good zoner. If Jak gained as much AP from a range as Dante does when he is forced to get in close, there would be no balance. Dante has no tools to fight at a range.

 

What you are complaining about is Dante's one and only strength. His attacks are hugely unsafe and a third of his moveset is useless (triangle, gun attacks can only really be used for cancels). Dante has very few tools to work with. He is a PURE combo character. His level 1 is awful outside of combos (you can very easily dodge roll between each of his slow attacks), his level 2 is about the equivalanet of Toro's level 1, and Dante's level 3 is the equivalent of Big Daddy's and Raiden's level 2.

 

Dante cannot just combo you and farm AP into a super just whenever he wants. It doesn't actually work the way you describe.

 

Dante starts out with 0 AP, so he needs to build 150 AP on the first attack (btw, multiple characters have 150 AP combos). He will build 150 AP from the first combo but he CANNOT combo into his first super. Second time he hits you, he can build up to 90 AP then kill you. Third hit, he can build another 90 AP making a total of 180 AP allowing to use his 150 AP costing super leaving him with 30 AP. Dante has to generate another 120 AP before getting his next level 1. Dante will not combo into super on his fourth hit. Dante needs to make 5 hits to win a 3 stock match.

 

I would like to point out that nearly all of Dante's attacks are extremely unsafe on whiff and block. If you block his attacks, you get a free punish. If he misses you, you get a free punish. Dante's attacks are more unsafe than any other character in the game. If you get hit by Dante, that is your fault and Dante reaps the rewards for his HUGE risks. Dante takes more risks than Jak, let me assure you.

 

Let me ask you this. What do you want to give Dante for having an extremely unsafe moveset in which he has over characters with safe movesets after taking away the only thing that makes Dante mid tier? Seriously, I challenge you to go into the training mode and start pressing square attacks then hold block. Come back and tell me how long it takes for Dante to go into his block animation. If you don't do this, then you cannot see my argument at its fullest. You bait out Dante's attacks, you can punish him with a super.


One word: counter.  Dante has one.  That's all you need to start into the loop.  He doesn't need to be the one attacking to start it.  And he has aerial combos that can decimate people as well. 

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Hekseville Citizen
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Re: Dante´s infinite combo. Cheap or legit?

Dec 4, 2012

Probably 50% of the cast on this game can combo from 0 ap to level 1. The point of the game is to learn the combos that are unbreakable and use them at the correct time to get the most amount of super for your time. There is a reason that there is no 1v1 currently in the game for ranked. In FFA or 2v2 it is rare that a dante can get a full loop off into a kill unless in 2v2 you have good communication with your partner. Nariko gets 210 super combos, and kratos can get 140 easy. it is meant to be in the game and has no signs of being taken out.

Check out my channel for Combo Videos and Tournament matches!
www.youtube.com/mogilsumi
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Wastelander
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Re: Dante´s infinite combo. Cheap or legit?

Dec 4, 2012

stelmoslight wrote:

BomB-RideR-14 wrote:

stelmoslight wrote:

BomB-RideR-14 wrote:

stelmoslight wrote:

Yes, but in a 1 v 1 situation, this is basically saying that once he has got you into this combo, he can keep going until he has built up a lvl 1, 2, or 3  (unless he drops it) and there's not a dang thing you can do about it.  I'm sorry, but that's not acceptable. 


I'm sorry but you are completely wrong about this. Please get your facts straight. This is NOT an infinite. You can only build up to 150 AP with this loop (180 AP with precise gun cancels, but I can't do that...you truly need to be an execution master to pull that off consistently).

 

Dante's Supers are among the most expensive in the game.

Level 1: 150 AP

Level 2: 400 AP

Level 3: 750 AP

 

Please explain to me how he can build up to 750 AP from a single combo that he can "keep going until" he gets to his level 3. There is an infinite prevention system that makes what you said completely impossible.


The point is that this is a means by which you can be trapped with no way out while Dante farms AP off of you until he can kill you.  Are you saying that characters should be allowed to simply hit you once and then keep you in a combo until that character can kill you?  Then every person using this character will learn to do this and only this and then what happens?  it becomes no fun for anyone because 90% of the battle, they are stuck in a combo that guarantees a kill at the end.  Let me ask you, is it fun for you to be trapped in another Dante's loop while you sit there and can do nothing about it unil you die?  That's a fair question, I think.  And you shouldn't complain.  I play Jak.  Jak has almost no combos and gains very little AP for the risks he takes.  And, as far as I have discovered, he can't combo into ANY of his supers. 

 


First of all, I'm not complaining...you are.

 

Second of all, Jak can combo into his supers if you know how (admittedly they are situational). He also has some setups you can perform that are inescapeable. Admittedly Jak needs a few buffs though.

 

Third, Jak does not equal Dante. Dante purely has to fight up close while Jak is a very good zoner. If Jak gained as much AP from a range as Dante does when he is forced to get in close, there would be no balance. Dante has no tools to fight at a range.

 

What you are complaining about is Dante's one and only strength. His attacks are hugely unsafe and a third of his moveset is useless (triangle, gun attacks can only really be used for cancels). Dante has very few tools to work with. He is a PURE combo character. His level 1 is awful outside of combos (you can very easily dodge roll between each of his slow attacks), his level 2 is about the equivalanet of Toro's level 1, and Dante's level 3 is the equivalent of Big Daddy's and Raiden's level 2.

 

Dante cannot just combo you and farm AP into a super just whenever he wants. It doesn't actually work the way you describe.

 

Dante starts out with 0 AP, so he needs to build 150 AP on the first attack (btw, multiple characters have 150 AP combos). He will build 150 AP from the first combo but he CANNOT combo into his first super. Second time he hits you, he can build up to 90 AP then kill you. Third hit, he can build another 90 AP making a total of 180 AP allowing to use his 150 AP costing super leaving him with 30 AP. Dante has to generate another 120 AP before getting his next level 1. Dante will not combo into super on his fourth hit. Dante needs to make 5 hits to win a 3 stock match.

 

I would like to point out that nearly all of Dante's attacks are extremely unsafe on whiff and block. If you block his attacks, you get a free punish. If he misses you, you get a free punish. Dante's attacks are more unsafe than any other character in the game. If you get hit by Dante, that is your fault and Dante reaps the rewards for his HUGE risks. Dante takes more risks than Jak, let me assure you.

 

Let me ask you this. What do you want to give Dante for having an extremely unsafe moveset in which he has over characters with safe movesets after taking away the only thing that makes Dante mid tier? Seriously, I challenge you to go into the training mode and start pressing square attacks then hold block. Come back and tell me how long it takes for Dante to go into his block animation. If you don't do this, then you cannot see my argument at its fullest. You bait out Dante's attacks, you can punish him with a super.


One word: counter.  Dante has one.  That's all you need to start into the loop.  He doesn't need to be the one attacking to start it.  And he has aerial combos that can decimate people as well. 



...You can't possibly think there isn't huge risk in using his counter do you? His counter has more ending lag than other counters (look at Raiden's counter then look at Dante's counter). Dante's aerial combos are below average, he generates between 60-90 AP from air hits. You are wrong about this.

 

Again. I challenge you to go into the training room with Dante. Press Square attacks and hold block. Please go see this for yourself.

 

After that, please look at this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-rewgnBurU

 

Raiden can combo into his super from attacks, his counter, and his grab in multiple ways generating tons of meter before actually using the super. Let's stop pretending Dante is the only character that can do this.

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Treasure Hunter
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Re: Dante´s infinite combo. Cheap or legit?

Dec 4, 2012

The character is already hard to use with his terrible approach methods so there isn't much to say since even the False Blood Combo by itself is hard to do.

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Sackboy
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Re: Dante´s infinite combo. Cheap or legit?

Dec 4, 2012

I will definitely agree with you that Raiden needs toning down...he needs less options to go into his lvl 1.  But I will say one last thing before I concede here.  If you think that Dante's only saving grace is one combo loop and that otherwise he sucks, maybe you should try experimenting more.  Having to rely on one setup to win is not a great strategy.  I will use my Jak example again.  While he has very unsafe melee, his mid range game is very competent.  Until I learned this, I thought Jak was bad.  Maybe it's the same for Dante.  You have to find his sweet spot before writing him off as being inferior.  Just my two cents.  Alright, I concede.  You are the victor here.

 

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: Dante´s infinite combo. Cheap or legit?

Dec 5, 2012
LOL!! That's funny you still won
Anyways I main, and you get pretty mentally tired using her. I've had matches where everything looks smooth, but I start losing focus because he would know how to evade my levels or combos , and lose.
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Gaming Beast
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Re: Dante´s infinite combo. Cheap or legit?

Dec 5, 2012

Dante is an inferior character. He has no range. His only range is his axe attack that isn't even a good ranged attack at all. He MUST be right next to you and hit you with relatively slow attacks to combo you. Like said before, his attacks are extremely punishable. I know you've already conceded, but it's obviously you don't believe us. Play Dante. Try to perform his empty cancel. You'll see it's hardly worth it to do this loop. It's extremely hard to empty cancel three times in a row consistently and it's pointless when you can do much simpler combos for ~10-20 AP less.

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Wastelander
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Re: Dante´s infinite combo. Cheap or legit?

[ Edited ]
Dec 5, 2012

stelmoslight wrote:

I will definitely agree with you that Raiden needs toning down...he needs less options to go into his lvl 1.  But I will say one last thing before I concede here.  If you think that Dante's only saving grace is one combo loop and that otherwise he sucks, maybe you should try experimenting more.  Having to rely on one setup to win is not a great strategy.  I will use my Jak example again.  While he has very unsafe melee, his mid range game is very competent.  Until I learned this, I thought Jak was bad.  Maybe it's the same for Dante.  You have to find his sweet spot before writing him off as being inferior.  Just my two cents.  Alright, I concede.  You are the victor here.

 


I see what you are trying to say here and while it does make sense...it does not really apply with Dante. Some characters are designed to be very "one-dimensional." Dante is one of those characters.

 

It'd be like trying to play Dhalsim purely as a rushdown character. Dhalsim is good at poking and long ranged attacks but can't really function that well as a rushdown character.

 

I've been playing Dante long before this loop was discovered. I played him in all sorts of different ways. Before I knew how to combo into his level 1, I tried using it to predict rolls. People would roll into my super and then still have enough time to roll again before the attack actually hit. It is too slow. Dante's attacks are too unsafe to not use this loop. His combos don't build any more meter than other characters that have safe movesets. His ability to zone is abysmal. His supers are extremely expensive compared to the rest of the cast despite being very poor in thier functionalities.

 

I've tried playing without the loops, believe me. Dante is completely hopelessly outmatched without it. If you played him as frequently as I have you'd understand where I'm coming from. It is easy to say "you should try exploring other options rather than relying on one setup to win" but to actually try it yourself is another thing altogether now isn't it? It is easy to judge in this way, but it isn't quite as easy as playing Dante yourself to see. Honestly I find this to be a bit hypocritical for you to give me advice on how to play Dante, when you've never spent any time with the character yourself.

 

This is the thing...I've explored everything about Dante's moveset. The character is very one dimensional, but that doesn't make him bad. He is good at one thing, and one thing only and that is a result of this loop. Take that away, and you've just destroyed any hope this character has.

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Treasure Hunter
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Re: Dante´s infinite combo. Cheap or legit?

Dec 5, 2012

dragonsroc wrote:

Dante is an inferior character. He has no range. His only range is his axe attack that isn't even a good ranged attack at all. He MUST be right next to you and hit you with relatively slow attacks to combo you. Like said before, his attacks are extremely punishable. I know you've already conceded, but it's obviously you don't believe us. Play Dante. Try to perform his empty cancel. You'll see it's hardly worth it to do this loop. It's extremely hard to empty cancel three times in a row consistently and it's pointless when you can do much simpler combos for ~10-20 AP less.


^This and not this atthe same time.  Dante is hard to use with no range but False Blood is completely worth learning and doing consistently.  Which I'm getting to point of being able to do it consistently.  Normaly what I would do is press square 3 times, then FBC then do square three times again and then do the up + square move and do the usual air combo.

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