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Lombax Warrior
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Re: COS-117's PSASBR 2v2 TIER LIST

Dec 19, 2012

I still think teir lists are funny, Toro is A tier hands down. He's able to cover friends from a distance with ninja stance, able to hold his own with oni and justice (I frequently 2v1 due to a friends connection) and has enough combos to keep him surprising, as well as a easy combo that builds him a full meter

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Wastelander
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Re: COS-117's PSASBR 2v2 TIER LIST

[ Edited ]
Dec 19, 2012

gmoney0505 wrote:

Sweet Tooth is probably where he needs to be or might meed to be down a tier. He has some pretty good close up moves but lack combos bad. The ones I have seen videos of they are too situaltional. He has the worst level 2 super out of every one and has the worst hit confirm togo into his level one. He requires the most work to play with out of anyone in this game. Sometimes I can;t believe Superbot would let this kind of disadvantage go on for a charater and let too many advantages that are spammable to death for others fly by.



I wouldn't necessarily say that Sweet Tooth's problem is that he has no combos. He has other things that make up (strong spacing game, cheap level 1).

 

You would think that because of these lack of combos, he would be very strong in other areas. Unfortunately some characters just completely outrange him or in some way just completely nullify his spacing game, making his character design pointless (these same character that outrange Sweet Tooth can also do 130-150 AP combos too).

 

Then he has a level 2 that completely handicaps him because his level 1 is so "good" and cheap. Problem is, there are characters that have even better level 1 supers than Sweet Tooth and they still get level 2 supers that are useful to them (Raiden, Cole, Evil Cole, Fat Princess, etc).

 

Sweet Tooth is one dimensional. If the opposing character has a move or two that takes away Sweet Tooth's ability to play footsies and space the opponent out, then he has a disadvantageous match up against that character. Sweet Tooth also relies on pushing the opponent towards the corner but some characters can get out of the corner very easily. Kratos outranges him so disadvantage there. Evil Cole outranges him, pushes him full screen for free easy charges, and Giga punch negates all up close pressure for a free super because of the armor. At any time Evil Cole is in the corner, he can jump and superman out negating Sweet Tooth's impressive corner pressure game. Drake can't be approached when he is near a wall and Drake outzones Sweet Tooth and has broken melee. Drake completely nullifies Sweet Tooth's corner pressure game. Sir Dan has his shield which absorbs Sweet Tooth's land mines, shot guns, napalms, and machete throws (probably the only character who has a disadvantage against Sir Daniel).

 

After you stop looking at his disadvantage match ups, you start to realise that he doesn't have too many match ups in his favor either. Most of the will probably be 5 - 5, but his disadvantages range from 4 - 6 to a 1 - 9 match up with Drake because of that wall loop. Sweet Tooth's best match up will be no better than a 6 - 4 which would probably be quite rare.

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Hekseville Citizen
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Re: COS-117's PSASBR 2v2 TIER LIST

Dec 19, 2012
Radec has more than his sniper.... triangle in the air covers a lot of space. Radec has full combos up close so saying his only form of AP gen is his sniper is crazy. The sniper is very situational. His machine gun is better t use in combination with his invis nade
PSN : PsYkiiiK and also FroZiiiN.... PsYkiiiK is always on PSASBR HMU for some 1v1s
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Re: COS-117's PSASBR 2v2 TIER LIST

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Dec 19, 2012

Gorgeous_Black wrote:
This is why I don't make these list COS ..... people get real passionate about there characters that they main.

Eh, passion is fine. Taking a persons insight who is passionate about a character might lead me to think differently since I might not be as invested into that character as they are. They might disagree with my placement and that is fine. I don't make these lists to please I make them to inform. Smiley Happy


gmoney0505 wrote:

Kratos,FP, & sly should be S tier, they just have to many moves and great supers. Like one poster said, I would happly go up against a raiden than a kratos anyday. Kratos just has to many moves with no recovery time in between. Anyone I see playing with Kratos I immediately lose respect for them playing with suck a cheap character like him and people just spam the neutral square and up square button.


I'll just touch on this since I've touched on the other parts you've mentioned already.

 

I'm going to have to revisit where I place Kratos. Not because I am not confident where I see him in my eyes, but because his placement is drastically different amongst all skill levels. Though he is not much of a problem for me he seems to be an overwhelming power house for most others.

 

FP I feel is in the perfect place. She's been my main lady since beta and I know she is quite a hefty challenge to take on. She is the perfect representation of what the A tier is: A well rounded character that can get the job done.

 

Sly is getting revisited, I think his placement may have been an oversight.


SiftRock wrote:

I still think teir lists are funny, Toro is A tier hands down. He's able to cover friends from a distance with ninja stance, able to hold his own with oni and justice (I frequently 2v1 due to a friends connection) and has enough combos to keep him surprising, as well as a easy combo that builds him a full meter


This I agree with, I seem to have let a lot of errors slip through this one and will have a big update shortly.

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Gaming Beast
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Re: COS-117's PSASBR 2v2 TIER LIST

Dec 19, 2012

@BomB: I don't play Sweet Tooth, but is the drake MU really that bad? It feels like you would be able to force him to approach you if he tries to completely zone you out since I believe Napalm has more range and that you would win in melee, but lose at mid range (AKA max AK range). I don't know him too well, but it seems like if you camp it really hard when he's far and get super aggressive when he's close you'd do all right, but then as I said, I don't play ST so that's speculation. After all, I thought BD would do well against ST in theory, but in practice it's one of my worst matchups.

 

I also have trouble seeing how ST would lose to Kratos, but then again I feel Kratos is a garbage character when put in a 1v1 situation and don't feel anyone should lose to him until someone shows me different. So yeah might be biased on that one.

 

Also Sir Dan is actually pretty good in 1v1, and seems to do pretty well against characters that use projectiles in their combos like the Coles or characters who can't outzone the axe.

 

That being said, I do realize this is a 2v2 thread, and it feels like a lot of what you said is more about 1v1. I don't know him too well, but wouldn't ST be a character that would benefit from having a partner watching his back, or maybe better yet some sort of battery character he could support with Napalms, Mines, shotguns as he builds to 3? IDK, I could see him working really well with a character like BD or Raiden (Maybe also Heihachi, toro, dante, or sir dan? Not really sure how they work in doubles or if they could properly fit the battery role.).

 
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Wastelander
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Re: COS-117's PSASBR 2v2 TIER LIST

[ Edited ]
Dec 19, 2012

Fromundaman wrote:

@BomB: I don't play Sweet Tooth, but is the drake MU really that bad? It feels like you would be able to force him to approach you if he tries to completely zone you out since I believe Napalm has more range and that you would win in melee, but lose at mid range (AKA max AK range). I don't know him too well, but it seems like if you camp it really hard when he's far and get super aggressive when he's close you'd do all right, but then as I said, I don't play ST so that's speculation. After all, I thought BD would do well against ST in theory, but in practice it's one of my worst matchups.

 

I also have trouble seeing how ST would lose to Kratos, but then again I feel Kratos is a garbage character when put in a 1v1 situation and don't feel anyone should lose to him until someone shows me different. So yeah might be biased on that one.

 

Also Sir Dan is actually pretty good in 1v1, and seems to do pretty well against characters that use projectiles in their combos like the Coles or characters who can't outzone the axe.

 

That being said, I do realize this is a 2v2 thread, and it feels like a lot of what you said is more about 1v1. I don't know him too well, but wouldn't ST be a character that would benefit from having a partner watching his back, or maybe better yet some sort of battery character he could support with Napalms, Mines, shotguns as he builds to 3? IDK, I could see him working really well with a character like BD or Raiden (Maybe also Heihachi, toro, dante, or sir dan? Not really sure how they work in doubles or if they could properly fit the battery role.).



Yea, in 2vs2 Sweet Tooth functions as a pretty good support character. I'll admit that. I do have success with Sweet Tooth in 2vs2 (obviously right?), but I feel the big problem is that there are actually better characters than Sweet Tooth for 2vs2. Sweet Tooth just gets completely outclassed in some situations. All the success I have with Sweet Tooth would be increased and be mind numbingly more easier if I played a different character. It pains me to say that since I really like Sweet Tooth's playstyle.

 

Since this is a 2vs2 thread and not a 1vs1 thread, I don't want to derail this thread further by commenting on the 1vs1 match ups. If you want my explanations as to why Sweet Tooth has terrible match ups against Kratos and Nathan Drake then just send me a private message.

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I Only Post Everything
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Re: COS-117's PSASBR 2v2 TIER LIST

Dec 19, 2012

Bump! Updated a bit.

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Gaming Beast
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Re: COS-117's PSASBR 2v2 TIER LIST

Dec 19, 2012

BomB-RideR-14 wrote:

Fromundaman wrote:

@BomB: I don't play Sweet Tooth, but is the drake MU really that bad? It feels like you would be able to force him to approach you if he tries to completely zone you out since I believe Napalm has more range and that you would win in melee, but lose at mid range (AKA max AK range). I don't know him too well, but it seems like if you camp it really hard when he's far and get super aggressive when he's close you'd do all right, but then as I said, I don't play ST so that's speculation. After all, I thought BD would do well against ST in theory, but in practice it's one of my worst matchups.

 

I also have trouble seeing how ST would lose to Kratos, but then again I feel Kratos is a garbage character when put in a 1v1 situation and don't feel anyone should lose to him until someone shows me different. So yeah might be biased on that one.

 

Also Sir Dan is actually pretty good in 1v1, and seems to do pretty well against characters that use projectiles in their combos like the Coles or characters who can't outzone the axe.

 

That being said, I do realize this is a 2v2 thread, and it feels like a lot of what you said is more about 1v1. I don't know him too well, but wouldn't ST be a character that would benefit from having a partner watching his back, or maybe better yet some sort of battery character he could support with Napalms, Mines, shotguns as he builds to 3? IDK, I could see him working really well with a character like BD or Raiden (Maybe also Heihachi, toro, dante, or sir dan? Not really sure how they work in doubles or if they could properly fit the battery role.).



Yea, in 2vs2 Sweet Tooth functions as a pretty good support character. I'll admit that. I do have success with Sweet Tooth in 2vs2 (obviously right?), but I feel the big problem is that there are actually better characters than Sweet Tooth for 2vs2. Sweet Tooth just gets completely outclassed in some situations. All the success I have with Sweet Tooth would be increased and be mind numbingly more easier if I played a different character. It pains me to say that since I really like Sweet Tooth's playstyle.

 

Since this is a 2vs2 thread and not a 1vs1 thread, I don't want to derail this thread further by commenting on the 1vs1 match ups. If you want my explanations as to why Sweet Tooth has terrible match ups against Kratos and Nathan Drake then just send me a private message.


Hmmm... I can see that. Who do you see as doing his job better for 2v2 though? With a good battery it feels like he should be able to safely rack up meter and if he hits 3 he wins the match pretty much by himself. I mean there are other good support characters, and possibly even some with better roles, but I can't really think of any that would affect the game as strongly while still staying safe/playing the support role. I'm not saying there aren't any, just that none come to mind for me so I'd appreciate a little clarification on that.

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Wastelander
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Re: COS-117's PSASBR 2v2 TIER LIST

Dec 20, 2012

To some extent, I believe Ratchet to be a more defensively focused, better version of Sweet Tooth. I don't play the character too much right now, but at this point I plan on picking him up.

 

Also keep in mind that Sweet Tooth's level 3 costs 750 AP, the same as Kratos and other characters who have non-screen clearing level 3 supers. The difference is that Sweet Tooth builds AP slower than those other characters so they will get their level 3 first. Sweet Tooth's level 3 is also very risky in that all the attacks are very telegraphed and easy to avoid if you stay close to Sweetbot (not that I haven't had success with it). Sweet Tooth's level 3 does have the benefit that it is one of the rare ones in which it lasts long enough to get 3 kills on a single player (not as easy to do as Sackboy's though). Despite Sweet Tooth's lack of combos to build meter, only his level 1 super is cheaper.

 

Level 1 super costs 100 AP

Level 2 super costs 400 AP (which is a good thing this super is expensive so you can store up more level 1 supers rather than blowing it away on this useless thing)

Level 3 costs 750 AP (same as Drake, Kratos, Sackboy,Sly Cooper, etc)

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: COS-117's PSASBR 2v2 TIER LIST

Dec 20, 2012

BomB-RideR-14 wrote:

I wouldn't necessarily say that Sweet Tooth's problem is that he has no combos. He has other things that make up (strong spacing game, cheap level 1).


Sweet Tooth does not have a cheap level 1. He only has one hit confirm i know of into it and can only get 1 kill almost all the time unless someone is in the area where the bomb explode but that is like a 1 in a 100 chance to get that. Cheap level one is Sly that can go invisible and still activate level one.

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