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Gaming Beast
Registered: 09/18/2012
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Re: 2vs2 Tier List Discussion

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Dec 27, 2012

CalDW19940 wrote:

@Tekn0tize Radecs supers are better for 2vs2 but Radec not only relies heavily on what stage he is on but he generally has trouble getting characters off him while Jak has his amazing mobility to take to the skys and get away ASAP if his partner isn't around. Jak's side triangles can get opponents off his partner very well and build him some much needed meter. I think they are pretty even so it's a bit harder to place them but I think I might budge Radec up a bit.


Those are valid points, but Radec has his Stealth grenade to escape but yes, nowhere as good in the air as Jak. In general both characters will rely on their partner for distraction but Radec more so than Jak. But when Radec has that bit of distraction he can be far more devastating than Jak.

 

Radec's neutral triangle is much quicker than Jak's forward triangle, and covers a pretty decent range. It doesn't have the knock down effect but it gives Radec more time to think of get away options. It can be used at much closer range than Jak's forward triangle which has a slow startup in comparison. I also think Radec gets frame advantage after hitting neutral triangle, the opponent has to block / dodge. Jumping out will get you caught in it again if you're closer.

 

Also I think Radec's level 1 super is so easy to just throw out and easily better than Jak's level 1, I think that might tilt things in Radec's favour a bit. Hard to say because some of it is very situational / map dependent. For now I think the positions look fine.

 

 

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Wastelander
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Re: 2vs2 Tier List Discussion

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Dec 27, 2012

CalDW19940 wrote:

@BomB-RideR-14 Sweet Tooth has one of the best tech chase options in the whole game available to him he is a solid mid tier character that dominates up close but struggles against zoners in 1vs1. FFA and 2vs2 then yes Sweet Tooth has a much harder time but in 1vs1 he is a monster at close range and able to put severe pressure on characters as soon as he knocked them down.

 

Remember this is based on 2vs2 only and Sweet Tooth does not offer that sufficient a role with many characters that another one can simply do better, similar to how Big Daddy is a better protector than most of the cast.


I find it a little strange you are telling me what Sweet Tooth is good at and what he is bad at considering I just told you my own experience with Sweet Tooth. I know Sweet Tooth very well, as he is my main character in which I have black belts in both 2vs2 and FFA with him and use him as my main character in 1vs1 as well.

 

Sweet Tooth's zoning isn't as bad as you make it out to be. Sweet Tooth actually has a somewhat average zoning game that is great at supporting another zoning character. My 2vs2 partner is a Jak player, and we basically got our Black Belts together. We seem to make it work. If Sweet Tooth is indeed the worst 2vs2 character in the game, I guarentee you that my win/loss ratio would not be as high as it is for 2vs2.

 

I'm also not quite so sure why you make the claim that Sweet Tooth is a poor "protector." When it comes to defending airspace and ground space, Sweet Tooth is very good in this department. If you wish to ignore my advice on how to place this character based on my experience with the character, then that is on you but I feel as though you are downplaying this character to extreme amounts by placing him at the worst possible position.

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: 2vs2 Tier List Discussion

Dec 27, 2012

I have a few issues with two of your points

 

      Firstly, Kuma is good only when he wants to be meaning that he has to rely on the smart decisions that his Ai makes (if any). I say this because Ai Kuma is easy to mess with. If your character has a fast roll, simply rolling side to side will sometimes fluster Kuma causing him to go back and forth mindlessly. The fart prevents this from happening but that is totally deendent on the AI. Also, if you stand on a platform that's out of Kuma's jump range ( Dreamscape, Black Rock Stadium, etc...), Kuma will jump and try to butt slam you which is pretty futile considering that he never actually reaches you in the first place. I've had this happen to me many times. You can also fluster Kuma by moving from side to side when you're on a high platform which will also cause him to move back and forth mindlessly. Kuma is a sort of gamble. One player can potentially distract Kuma away from the other player thus severely dropping Kuma's effectiveness.

 

     Secondly, Spike's monkey radar fully charged is not that great. It has quite the startup meaning people will see it coming/ hit you out of it and the ape doesn't have much range at all. Also, if you use it while your partner is comboing them/ has them locked down, the ape will launch them away thus letting them have an opportunity to escape pressure and set up their own offensive/ defensive. It's more of an FFA tool if anything.

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Gaming Beast
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Re: 2vs2 Tier List Discussion

Dec 27, 2012

BomB-RideR-14 wrote:

I'm a Sweet Tooth main. Currently the highest ranked Sweet Tooth player on the 2vs2 leaderboard with a 200 Black Belt. I can't really take any list that has Sweet Tooth at the absolute bottom of any tier list (1vs1, 2vs2, FFA) too seriously. Sweet Tooth is far from being one of better characters in this game but there are most definitely characters worse than Sweet Tooth in all three of these type of match ups.

 

I think you should consider reassessing your entire tier list over again. There is no way this is accurate.


His problem is that he's a character that functions best around his mind, zoning and forcing others to approach him, then beating them with machete/shotguns. Unfortunately, in 2v2 you can rather safely ignore him and focus on his partner, then 2v1 the ST. So long as ST doesn't hit 3 bars, then he's not a huge threat.
That being said you do make a good point about him protecting zoners. I guess if you have him and another zoning character you do actually force people to come to you, which is where he'll shine. Also he does really well against BD, who is one of the better 2v2 characters.

Don't get me wrong, he's not terrible at 2v2, but I admit that I have trouble thinking of anyone who's worse.




@Cald: At first I disagreed with some of the list, but after reading the justifications, I can agree with a lot of it. That being said some characters play a better support role, a protector role or a battery role. For example, I think Raiden plays a really good Battery role, but he really needs a good support character like Spike or Good Cole (Raiden + Cole's down triangle is kind of silly.).

Also on nariko, I don't know how I feel about her. If your opponents are paying attention, her long combos are going to most likely be interrupted, more than likely stopping her from building any significant amount of meter. I almost feel like she shines when paired with a good protector, like Dan, Spike or Big Daddy, then builds her way to level 3 to dominate the entire match.

Spike's bananas and boomerang are a much better tool than the fully charged monkey though. Those, along with the B cannon and occasionally the car makes him able to wall out an opponent or simply make it near impossible for an opponent to pull off a combo.

Also I don't know that heihachi is really that amazing in 2v2. Kuma gets stopped the moment someone kills Heihachi, so your partner can go after him while you distract the bear. More importantly though, if one pays attention to his meter, he can be stopped from reaching level 2. That being said, he does have a lot of ways to land a level 1 if he can't get level 2. However, I just don't feel he really brings all that much to the fight. He can't really distract multiple opponents effectively, nor does he really excel at interrupting combos. His combos take a bit of time to perform as well and get interrupted, and he's pretty terrible at supporting. Even with a good support character behind him, he still feels subpar for doubles. (That being said in 1v1 he's pretty beastly)

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First Son
Registered: 12/18/2012
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Re: 2vs2 Tier List Discussion

Dec 27, 2012

I just find Nariko's lvl 2 super to be bad in general. Doesn't matter if it's 1v1, 2v2, or  FFA. It leaves her WAY too open and it is easily avoidable, one of the worst in the game.

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Re: 2vs2 Tier List Discussion

Dec 27, 2012
@simplegary Oh In understand, whether or not Kuma actually feels like getting kills is down to luck but there's no denying that once he's out it's like throwing a spanner into the works of a fine machine. This is most notable on flat stages like the Dojo. Heihachi definatly benefits from being able to land his level 1 easily but his meter gain and Kuma being such a huge distraction gives him and his partner a lot to work with especially if they know they'll try and target him to stop Kuma. Also the very fact a player has to try and distract him just shows how effective he is at throwing off synergy because it means tthat players partner looses either their protector or covering fire depending what character they are.

As for the bannana thing I was more reffering to how the Banana's, electric ball and boomerange make spacial control while the mighty ape is mostly just there to mix it up a bit and not as important as his other projectiles.

@Fromundama Similar to what I said to gary regarding Kuma, he is a gamble yes but he's meant to be there to screw with synergy, Heihachi gains meter very quickly so he's never short of level 1's or 2's to go for so tossing out Kuma will often mess an opponents protector by either attacking them or going after who they're trying to protect and if there truly is no reason to go for Kuma Heihachi's level 3 is still a huge threat to the opposing team.

Nariko can be both a protector or someone to be protected. Characters with good covering fire can keep her safe during her combos while at the same time she can still save her partner fairly well. The problem with her is it's very easy to drop her timing specific combos online.

@eL-Pointe It's not the best super in the game but 2vs2 is one of the few times she can use it, especialy with a character able to cover her well. Sly for example is great for surprising foes trying to go after her especially since he can just throw out Murray to be this unstoppable force charge through Nariko to kill anyone trying to go near her. Her level 1 and 3 are still more useful for this game mode if you can get them but it's still one of the few times it's half decent.



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Lombax Warrior
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Re: 2vs2 Tier List Discussion

Dec 27, 2012

Shameless  bump

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