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Wastelander
Registered: 12/30/2008
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Re: The FW upgrades DO NOT damage the BD drive!!

Nov 17, 2009

fun4you2008 wrote:

Michelasso wrote:

Merkley wrote: 
EXACTLY!   For them, at this point, to continue that they haven't heard of it is BS.  The "evidence" of them denying this lends itself to a lie.  Hundreds of people have called in, posted, etc, but every rep you talk to and supervisor will deny it.  Frig, even one guy tried to tell me he hadn't heard of it until I reminded him that I talked to him about a week prior.  hahaha.

 

Why wouldn't Sony at this point say "we are going to look into it" --- because they know it's going to turn out that there is something wrong and they will be on the hook to fix it...... AND more importantly (and rightly so) they will be on the hook to fix future FW screw-ups that brick/damage systems. 


The problem is that those hundreds of people statically are the NORM!! We have estimated already that with a failure rate of 2% 180 PS3 in NA die EACH day. 800 per day if the failure rate is 10% as a magazine poll shows. Thus hundreds in 2 months is nothing. It had to be at least thousands in a couple of days just after the update was issued.
Numbers do not lie. It's against Sony interest to deny that an update is causing problems. We are talking about big, huge numbers. there are plenty of skilled technical people with labs at their disposal that can prove if an update damaged their PS3 and use their data against Sony. Well, not a single one showed up. Should it mean something or what?

 


A GOOD company does not care about how many are affected, but what kind of problem occurs.  Take as an example laptop battery recalls:

 

http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml09/09035.html

 

19 reported overheating: 17 flames/fire, 2 people with minor burns.  Out of the 35,150 battery affected, likely out of warranty (batteries made in 2004-2006, recall in 2008), 0.05 % had problems.  Yet these companies addressed the issue.  According to those posting here, Sony denies they even received any reports.  Your stance is that it's just a coincidence and they should not even complain.  Just accept it and buy a new laptop.  After all, 99.95 % of the other folks didn't have problems.

 

You are also assuming millions of PS3's out there have updated with no problem.  I haven't.  There's no way to know who has updated (well maybe Sony can).  You see new people posting regularly that they didn't update until some new game forced them, their PS3 BR died, and they are coming here learning they should have taken precautions.  You know what happens next month.  LOTS of people will be getting new PS3 games as gifts.  Just wait until your nephew calls up and tells you the PS3 game you gave him just fried his PS3 because it updated the FW for him.  This is a nightmare waiting to happen - even if according to you, it's just a "few" PS3's.

 

For everyone doing any FW updates:  when/if you do any updates, record in one continuous video stream your PS3 working fine - play a BR movie and launch a disc-based game, perform the update, and then test for a little while (if its a stress failure, it may take a little while before your PS3 starts acting up).  If it works, great!  If not, keep that video and post it if you can on youtube and  the link on these forums.

 

EDIT:  I misread the link - it's 19 total... so instead of 0.1% it's actually 0.05%.  And that doesn't include the 65,000 sold world-wide.

Message Edited by fun4you2008 on 11-17-2009 10:15 AM

 

 

well this is kinda different....sure it's a small number of failures but the faliurs have caused damaged to homes and injured people the company would have been stupid not to react...these supposed BD drives failling because of the updates have not caused any personal harm so it falls back on the fact that it's such a small percentage of the total systems....plus some of these reports occure days after the update came out...the chance of it being related are slim to none if you ask me....as for the people saying that some updates have caused the drives to spin faster and increase game load speed and such...i have not experienced ANY difference in game load times at all so show me any kind of proof. i mean really why would they even do that at all.....just redonculuse....now if the update was causing your ps3 to blow up or catch fire instantly after installing it then you would have more reason to complain....

 

quick edit:also where did it say that the speed of the BD drive was even changed?

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Hekseville Citizen
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Re: The FW upgrades DO NOT damage the BD drive!!

Nov 17, 2009

Grondinm wrote: 

 

well this is kinda different....sure it's a small number of failures but the faliurs have caused damaged to homes and injured people the company would have been stupid not to react...these supposed BD drives failling because of the updates have not caused any personal harm so it falls back on the fact that it's such a small percentage of the total systems....plus some of these reports occure days after the update came out...the chance of it being related are slim to none if you ask me....as for the people saying that some updates have caused the drives to spin faster and increase game load speed and such...i have not experienced ANY difference in game load times at all so show me any kind of proof. i mean really why would they even do that at all.....just redonculuse....now if the update was causing your ps3 to blow up or catch fire instantly after installing it then you would have more reason to complain....

 

quick edit:also where did it say that the speed of the BD drive was even changed?


Here is your proof: 
http://www.youtube.com/v/-GhNd2rxsp4&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&feature=player_embedded&fs=1

(this is just on the slim; but clearly shows the load times IN GAME are faster.  Nothing to do with the load screen or PS3 logo as people have WRONGLY claimed.

 

From people that know:
http://www.dvdtown.com/news/alert-some-ps3-owners-say-sonys-latest-firmware-killed-their-blu-ray/7064


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Wastelander
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Re: The FW upgrades DO NOT damage the BD drive!!

Nov 17, 2009

Merkley wrote:

Grondinm wrote: 

 

well this is kinda different....sure it's a small number of failures but the faliurs have caused damaged to homes and injured people the company would have been stupid not to react...these supposed BD drives failling because of the updates have not caused any personal harm so it falls back on the fact that it's such a small percentage of the total systems....plus some of these reports occure days after the update came out...the chance of it being related are slim to none if you ask me....as for the people saying that some updates have caused the drives to spin faster and increase game load speed and such...i have not experienced ANY difference in game load times at all so show me any kind of proof. i mean really why would they even do that at all.....just redonculuse....now if the update was causing your ps3 to blow up or catch fire instantly after installing it then you would have more reason to complain....

 

quick edit:also where did it say that the speed of the BD drive was even changed?


Here is your proof: 
http://www.youtube.com/v/-GhNd2rxsp4&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&feature=player_embedded&fs=1

(this is just on the slim; but clearly shows the load times IN GAME are faster.  Nothing to do with the load screen or PS3 logo as people have WRONGLY claimed.

 


ok i'll say this the 3.0(or so we are tole by whome?) did load faster but i'm not convinced anything in the FW changed...it could have been a fluke...the FW could have changed something in the way the system loads content to memory...the way it assing memory addresses....anyways i still don't think this could cause drives to fail....but thanx for the vid(not that i consider it proof per say as god only knows where it came from)

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Hekseville Citizen
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Re: The FW upgrades DO NOT damage the BD drive!!

Nov 17, 2009

Grondinm wrote:

ok i'll say this the 3.0(or so we are tole by whome?) did load faster but i'm not convinced anything in the FW changed...it could have been a fluke...the FW could have changed something in the way the system loads content to memory...the way it assing memory addresses....anyways i still don't think this could cause drives to fail....but thanx for the vid(not that i consider it proof per say as god only knows where it came from)


I don't know about "fluke" ... that should not be possible when it comes to programming.  It's a decision path for code at all points, whether doing "try/catch" blocks, "if/elseif", "select case", etc.   There are NO flukes when it comes to programming... trust me.

 

I agree, the only "PROOF" of that video is that it does load faster using 3.0 firmware on a slim.  Considering that Sony never even mentioned better load times in the release notes is major cause to raise an eyebrow.  After all why would they not announce it?  One answer is that they had something to hide because they knew some systems would break.  Perhaps they miscalculated that number and now are in the "DENY" mode?

 

I dunno, whatever the reason is there is video evidence that firmware did change "something" in how thecode loaded, certainly the fact that a hundreds of blu-rays broke at the same time is less than coincidence.

 

 

From people that know:
http://www.dvdtown.com/news/alert-some-ps3-owners-say-sonys-latest-firmware-killed-their-blu-ray/7064


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Wastelander
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Re: The FW upgrades DO NOT damage the BD drive!!

Nov 17, 2009

Merkley wrote:

Grondinm wrote:

ok i'll say this the 3.0(or so we are tole by whome?) did load faster but i'm not convinced anything in the FW changed...it could have been a fluke...the FW could have changed something in the way the system loads content to memory...the way it assing memory addresses....anyways i still don't think this could cause drives to fail....but thanx for the vid(not that i consider it proof per say as god only knows where it came from)


I don't know about "fluke" ... that should not be possible when it comes to programming.  It's a decision path for code at all points, whether doing "try/catch" blocks, "if/elseif", "select case", etc.   There are NO flukes when it comes to programming... trust me.

 

I agree, the only "PROOF" of that video is that it does load faster using 3.0 firmware on a slim.  Considering that Sony never even mentioned better load times in the release notes is major cause to raise an eyebrow.  After all why would they not announce it?  One answer is that they had something to hide because they knew some systems would break.  Perhaps they miscalculated that number and now are in the "DENY" mode?

 

I dunno, whatever the reason is there is video evidence that firmware did change "something" in how thecode loaded, certainly the fact that a hundreds of blu-rays broke at the same time is less than coincidence.

 

 


sure theire can be flukes....what if the game in this vid is programed to wait for a certainamount of memory to be freed from the smb...and what if in the case of when it loaded on the 2.80 FW the xmb hung and took longer to realease it's memory...that would have caused the game to take longer to load....if the game is programed to wait for a certain thing to happen and this certain thing takes longer for whatever the reason then the game will take longer to load...i might not be a expert programmer but i have done some so i know how programming works... trust me...and this vid could also be a trick of the camera....would not take to much to make it look perfect...

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: The FW upgrades DO NOT damage the BD drive!!

Nov 17, 2009

Merkley wrote:

Grondinm wrote: 

 

well this is kinda different....sure it's a small number of failures but the faliurs have caused damaged to homes and injured people the company would have been stupid not to react...these supposed BD drives failling because of the updates have not caused any personal harm so it falls back on the fact that it's such a small percentage of the total systems....plus some of these reports occure days after the update came out...the chance of it being related are slim to none if you ask me....as for the people saying that some updates have caused the drives to spin faster and increase game load speed and such...i have not experienced ANY difference in game load times at all so show me any kind of proof. i mean really why would they even do that at all.....just redonculuse....now if the update was causing your ps3 to blow up or catch fire instantly after installing it then you would have more reason to complain....

 

quick edit:also where did it say that the speed of the BD drive was even changed?


Here is your proof: 
http://www.youtube.com/v/-GhNd2rxsp4&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&feature=player_embedded&fs=1

(this is just on the slim; but clearly shows the load times IN GAME are faster.  Nothing to do with the load screen or PS3 logo as people have WRONGLY claimed.

 


Grondinm:

 

And you have proof in the youtube video posted many times on these forums showing immediate failure of the BR drive when someone updated from 3.0 to 3.01.  That's why I suggest making more video recordings of the update.  To provide more video evidence of the failures.  But unfortunately, most people show up here AFTER they updated and had problems, and those who are on here already and have 2.x aren't crazy enough to update, so video evidence is tough to come by.  We got lucky because at least one person recorded all their updates, and the bug happened to them.  You simply chose to completely ignore it - and I'm not sure why.  All these folks are just imagining their PS3 BR fails within minutes/days/hours of the FW update, right

 

We also have folks who loaded Ubuntu and were able to read BR data, but their PS3 OS won't read a PS3 game (can someone record that - boot PS3, show the error, then boot Ubunto and read BR data, and then PS3 again with error - all in one continuous video stream and post to youtube).  We have one poster who said they put the "failed" drive in another PS3 and played Madden 10 for 3 hours, put it back in their 3.01 PS3, and it didn't work.  Those folks are never going to convince you it's a firmware problem, but for the folks in the lawsuit - eDiscovery should be high priority....  even at the point where a potential lawsuit is expected, Sony would have had to preserved evidence (assuming they are following the law and not destroying evidence).  And so, besides a phone call, those with the problem need to send email, create tickets for the problem, and keep those emails and replies.  It's easy for Sony to say a phone call never happened.  But email is an evidence trail that can be documented and logged by a third party (the Internet email providers).

 

 
Message Edited by fun4you2008 on 11-17-2009 11:41 AM
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Sackboy
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Re: The FW upgrades DO NOT damage the BD drive!!

Nov 18, 2009
Just dropping by to say that blu-rays freeze when accessed through my xmb but I can view the data freely in ubuntu 8.10.  Anyone surprised?  Didn't think so.  This means that something is freaking the drive out when it plays games and movies (which cannot be played in linux).


Proudly using 3.15 so as to retain my advertised feature of other-os.

Sony refuses to prove that your bluray drive did not "die" from a 3.xx update. Decide for yourself and ignore the ignorance.


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Lombax Warrior
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Re: The FW upgrades DO NOT damage the BD drive!!

Nov 18, 2009
Not asking the world of you or anything, but can you make a video of this happening? Trying to load it with the XMB and failing, then loading it in ubuntu and getting results? I'd like to add it to my BBB complaint but I would need the proof first.
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Lombax Warrior
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Re: The FW upgrades DO NOT damage the BD drive!!

Nov 18, 2009

RobotNinjaDeath wrote:

RandomGuard wrote:
Not asking the world of you or anything, but can you make a video of this happening? Trying to load it with the XMB and failing, then loading it in ubuntu and getting results? I'd like to add it to my BBB complaint but I would need the proof first.
I made video and took pictures.  I don't have time to upload right now but I most assuredly will get to it.  

 


That's fine by me. They'll probably push my BBB complaint back another ten days anyway.

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Sackboy
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Re: The FW upgrades DO NOT damage the BD drive!!

Nov 18, 2009

RandomGuard wrote:
Not asking the world of you or anything, but can you make a video of this happening? Trying to load it with the XMB and failing, then loading it in ubuntu and getting results? I'd like to add it to my BBB complaint but I would need the proof first.
I made video and took pictures.  I don't have time to upload right now but I most assuredly will get to it.  

 

Mind you this isn't the bullet-proof proof we have all been wanting.  Ubuntu 8.10 can't play games or blu-ray movies.  I'm assuming that is where the freezing occurs for some of these "dead" blu-ray drives. This is just me popping in a game disc.  Then I can surf through all the files viewable on the disc.  Still pretty odd that Sony says my drive is dead.

Message Edited by RobotNinjaDeath on 11-17-2009 11:06 PM


Proudly using 3.15 so as to retain my advertised feature of other-os.

Sony refuses to prove that your bluray drive did not "die" from a 3.xx update. Decide for yourself and ignore the ignorance.


Get your Portable ID!
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