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Treasure Hunter
Registered: 11/20/2006
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Re: Lawsuits filed in Fed. Court against Sony regarding FW3.21 OtherOs

Aug 24, 2010

ziggurcat wrote:

 


The-Sarge wrote:

Downgrading is the removal of a feature or function that a product used to be able to perform.  Sounds exactly like what Sony did to me.

 

Next?

 


 

the term "update" in this context has nothing to do with whether the FW revision adds or removes functionality.    

 

you are trying to play a symantics game here and you're failing miserably.  


I am not playing any game of semantics.

 

The decision Sony Forced upon us was the decision to downgrade our product.  This downgrade was accomplished via the update.  We either loose the functionality of the Other OS Feature, or loose the functionality of being able to connect to the PSN. 

Either way, no matter what choice the consumer made, their product was capable of doing less than it was before the decision was forced upon them, and less than it was at the time of purchase.

 

Therefore, the term downgrade most definitely applies to the context of this issue.  Indeed it is at the very heart of it.  No "symantics" about it.

 

Your "symantics" comment is weak, even for you.  What's wrong zig?  Are you getting pressure from your bosses at Sony?

 

 

 

 

 

 


 


 


 


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Fender Bender
Registered: 06/20/2009
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Re: Lawsuits filed in Fed. Court against Sony regarding FW3.21 OtherOs

Aug 24, 2010

icemonkey310 wrote:

Different means to a same end.... Sounds like a ban to me.

 


you're absolutely right there, but really only one of those ends is actually a ban.

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Fender Bender
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Re: Lawsuits filed in Fed. Court against Sony regarding FW3.21 OtherOs

Aug 24, 2010

The-Sarge wrote:

 

I am not playing any game of semantics. 


of course you are because it has nothing to do with whether the FW revision adds or removes functionality. 

 

updating FW =/= upgrading (or downgrading), it is simply keeping your console up-to-date with the latest system software.

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Treasure Hunter
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Re: Lawsuits filed in Fed. Court against Sony regarding FW3.21 OtherOs

Aug 24, 2010

ziggurcat wrote:

The-Sarge wrote:

 

I am not playing any game of semantics. 


of course you are because it has nothing to do with whether the FW revision adds or removes functionality. 

 

updating FW =/= upgrading (or downgrading), it is simply keeping your console up-to-date with the latest system software.


What?

 

The underlying purpose of this entire thread is the Downgrade decision that Sony Forced upon us via the FW update.  How can you say it has nothing to do with it?

 

"Keeping the console up to date with the latest system software" as you put it, will downgrade the functionality of the system by removing a pre existing feature.  How is this semantics?  It is fact.

 

Making the decision not to keep your console up to date, in the context of this thread, has everything to do with deciding not to downgrade that system, by applying the "update" that does nothing else other than removing pre-existing functionality.

 

Therefore, one is not deciding to purposefully keep their system non updated to be a rebel, or to make Sony's life difficult.  They are deciding not to downgrade their system from functionality that they originally paid for.  And for this, they are being punished.  How fair is that?

 

Do you even know what semantics means?

 

 

 

 

 

 


 


 


 


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Hekseville Citizen
Registered: 11/22/2009
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Re: Lawsuits filed in Fed. Court against Sony regarding FW3.21 OtherOs

Aug 24, 2010

Technically both of you are right...

 

"In computing, downgrading refers to reverting software (or hardware) back to an older version; downgrade is the opposite of upgrade. Often, complex programs may need to be downgraded to remove unused or bugged features, and to increase speed and/or ease of use. The same can occur with machinery."

 

"The term upgrade refers to the replacement of a product with a newer version of the same product. It is most often used in computers and consumer electronics, generally meaning a replacement of hardware, software or firmware with a newer or better version, in order to bring the system up to date or to improve its characteristics. Contrast update and replace."

 

 

 

 

 

So updating to the latest firmware version is indeed upgrading a product with the latest firmware release. Even if the update itself changes, removes, modifies or replaces certain functions of a device it is still considered to be updating (and upgrading) the device to the latest software release. When you roll back a device to a prior firmware release you are actually downgrading a device to a previous (or older) firmware release.

 

 

 

To the end user it's more of an interpretation aspect. If updating/upgrading a device with the latest update causes a loss of functionality to the device that the end user is using then it can be said that the device's functionality (not the device itself) to the end user was downgraded.

 

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Fender Bender
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Re: Lawsuits filed in Fed. Court against Sony regarding FW3.21 OtherOs

Aug 24, 2010

The-Sarge wrote:

What?

 

The underlying purpose of this entire thread is the Downgrade decision that Sony Forced upon us via the FW update.  How can you say it has nothing to do with it?

 

"Keeping the console up to date with the latest system software" as you put it, will downgrade the functionality of the system by removing a pre existing feature.  How is this semantics?  It is fact.

 

Making the decision not to keep your console up to date, in the context of this thread, has everything to do with deciding not to downgrade that system, by applying the "update" that does nothing else other than removing pre-existing functionality.

 

Therefore, one is not deciding to purposefully keep their system non updated to be a rebel, or to make Sony's life difficult.  They are deciding not to downgrade their system from functionality that they originally paid for.  And for this, they are being punished.  How fair is that?

 

Do you even know what semantics means?

 


i think you need to go back a few pages and read what i was actually commenting on... the point being made was that there's a significant difference between not having access due to deciding not to update your console and having your access stripped because you did something wrong.  icemonkey310 was lumping both of those things together as being a bannable offense when only the latter applies.

 

the functionality that a FW revision adds or removes has no bearing on the fact that you need keep the console's FW up-to-date in order to access the PSN and other related online services (excluding the browser).  that is fact.

 

and you're assuming users are being "punished" for not updating.  also false.     

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Fender Bender
Registered: 10/16/2009
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Re: Lawsuits filed in Fed. Court against Sony regarding FW3.21 OtherOs

Aug 24, 2010

 


fleinn wrote:

PyrrhusRex wrote:

Yes.


Your one-word answers are pretty insignificant without any reasoning to support them.

 

 


icemonkey310 wrote:

 

Different means to a same end.  Regardless of which terminology you choose to use Sony has locked you out of PSN until you come back into compliance.  Sounds like a ban to me


That's not a ban at all. Do you consider the "no shirt, no shoes, no service" signs a ban? Do you consider not having a Costco card a ban from Costco?

 

You're confusing *restrictions* and *bans*.

 

And murdering someone and having them die of old age are means to the same end. But they're hardly the same thing, n'est-ce pas?

 

 


The-Sarge wrote:
The underlying purpose of this entire thread is the Downgrade decision that Sony Forced upon us via the FW update.  How can you say it has nothing to do with it?

If you check back, this semantics argument started because Pyro6000 took a response made by ziggurcat and substituted the word "downgrade" for the word "update" and claimed that he had made it better. He was trying to be "clever", but it failed, because the word was update, not upgrade. Does that clear things up?

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Treasure Hunter
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Re: Lawsuits filed in Fed. Court against Sony regarding FW3.21 OtherOs

Aug 24, 2010

ziggurcat wrote:

 

the functionality that a FW revision adds or removes has no bearing on the fact that you need keep the console's FW up-to-date in order to access the PSN and other related online services (excluding the browser).  that is fact.

 


But it does have a bearing on the decision to apply said FW updates, which is exactly the point that was being made, when the word update was replaced with downgrade, when your statement was quoted.

 

Do you think people would intentionally not update, and not access the PSN if said update was truly innocuous?  Of course not.  The only reason they don't update their system is because said update maliciously downgrades their system.  As such, the functionality that a FW revision removes has total bearing on keeping the consoles FW up to date.

 

 

I believe it is you who is hiding behind semantics.

 

 

 

 

 


 


 


 


Be One With The Game.

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Fender Bender
Registered: 02/03/2005
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Re: Lawsuits filed in Fed. Court against Sony regarding FW3.21 OtherOs

Aug 24, 2010

The-Sarge wrote:

But it does have a bearing on the decision to apply said FW updates, which is exactly the point that was being made, when the word update was replaced with downgrade, when your statement was quoted.

 

Do you think people would intentionally not update, and not access the PSN if said update was truly innocuous?  Of course not.  The only reason they don't update their system is because said update maliciously downgrades their system.  As such, the functionality that a FW revision removes has total bearing on keeping the consoles FW up to date.


I'm glad some people posses the ability to read between the lines.

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I Only Post Everything
Registered: 01/29/2009
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Re: Lawsuits filed in Fed. Court against Sony regarding FW3.21 OtherOs

Aug 24, 2010

 


Pyro6000 wrote:

The-Sarge wrote:

But it does have a bearing on the decision to apply said FW updates, which is exactly the point that was being made, when the word update was replaced with downgrade, when your statement was quoted.

 

Do you think people would intentionally not update, and not access the PSN if said update was truly innocuous?  Of course not.  The only reason they don't update their system is because said update maliciously downgrades their system.  As such, the functionality that a FW revision removes has total bearing on keeping the consoles FW up to date.


I'm glad some people posses the ability to read between the lines.


The choice to apply the update or not definitely lies with the individual user however it is Sony that forced us all to have to decide between for what many of us feel are two outcomes both of which are undesirable.

 

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