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Lombax Warrior
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Re: Wii now $109.00 retail, going the Dreamcast route

Jan 14, 2013

the_original_se wrote:

game releases in Japan for the next 3 months if anyone couldnt tell. 


So we've can gather from the chart that we have 3 games coming out in Japan for Nintendo Wii U, within the next 3 months, those are:

  1. Need for Speed: Most Wanted
  2. "Tank!  Tank!  Tank!"
  3. A game in Japanese letters 

That's not that much at all.  Why is there no decent software for Wii U?  Firstly - its ancient hardware can not support modern games.  Secondly - it was a rushed released, to meet the Playstation 4 danger.  Planned and launched in 7 months.  You can't make a good console with software in 7 months notice.  Thus - failing. 

 

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Re: Wii now $109.00 retail, going the Dreamcast route

Jan 14, 2013

JonathanCarabalo wrote:

 

Actually according to Isuppli, PS3 cost $494 to produce at launch, thus they were selling $500 version at break-even price, and the $600 at a minor profit.  The problem with Wii U is yes, lack of launch titles, but also, it was rushed to market, once Nintendo heard of the coming Playstation 4 via industry spies.  Thus the reason there are lack of launch titles, among other problems such as failed marketing. 


Do you have a source for that?  This article from iSuppli itself says the PS3 was sold at a loss at least until December 11, 2009:

http://www.isuppli.com/Teardowns/News/Pages/Sony-Gets-One-Step-Closer-to-Breakeven-Point-with-Latest...

 

While the original article seems to have been removed, other sources say that iSuppli priced it at $840 at launch:

http://www.edge-online.com/news/isuppli-60gb-ps3-costs-840-produce/

 

The WiiU does seem to have been rushed, but I don't see why you think it was "Planned and launched in 7 months."  Nintendo's president has said it was in planning since 2008.  When I say it appears to be rushed, I mean that they seem to have held it back to current console standards, rather than trying to advance them.  Similar to the original Wii - not a significant upgrade over GameCube and the other consoles of its time.  If it seemed to be a significant upgrade to PS3/XBox360, I would be more interested in it.  I still am, but I don't care enough to buy it before a price drop or more game releases.  I don't think it will fail though.  Its sales are still better than 360 and PS3 during their launch, even though they are not as spectacular as Wii sales were.

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Re: Wii now $109.00 retail, going the Dreamcast route

Jan 14, 2013

the_original_se wrote:

NINTENDOMINATION!

 

 

 

game releases in Japan for the next 3 months if anyone couldnt tell.

 


That's just as bad if not worse than the first months of the PS3

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Re: Wii now $109.00 retail, going the Dreamcast route

Jan 15, 2013

eagles1990 wrote:

the_original_se wrote:

NINTENDOMINATION!

 

 

 

game releases in Japan for the next 3 months if anyone couldnt tell.

 


That's just as bad if not worse than the first months of the PS3


id say worse, at least the PS3 launched with some actual games, Wii U has nothing but ports and shovelware so far.


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Re: Wii now $109.00 retail, going the Dreamcast route

Jan 15, 2013

the_original_se wrote:

eagles1990 wrote:

the_original_se wrote:

NINTENDOMINATION!

 

 

 

game releases in Japan for the next 3 months if anyone couldnt tell.

 


That's just as bad if not worse than the first months of the PS3


id say worse, at least the PS3 launched with some actual games, Wii U has nothing but ports and shovelware so far.


Now if you didn't say nothing but I'd agree, but no, they have a few actual games (non-ports): New Super Mario Bros. U, Nintendo Land, ZombiU, Scribblenauts Unlimited, and SING Party.

 

I realize this is the Playstation forums, but let's all try to not be such fanboys.



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Lombax Warrior
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Re: Wii now $109.00 retail, going the Dreamcast route

[ Edited ]
Jan 15, 2013

eagles1990 wrote:

the_original_se wrote:

NINTENDOMINATION!

 

 

 

game releases in Japan for the next 3 months if anyone couldnt tell.

 


That's just as bad if not worse than the first months of the PS3


But there were no competing game consoles which were getting 8.67 times the software releases in Japan - unlike now with Wii U.  And Sony still had (and still has) Playstation 2 pulling its weight - and getting tons of software releases.  Even Xbox2 is getting 12 releases in that time - 4 times more.

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Re: Wii now $109.00 retail, going the Dreamcast route

Jan 15, 2013

Oh yes ISuppli said $800+, it was a different source that said $494.  This one:

 

http://www.gamespot.com/news/report-ps3-to-sell-for-399-cost-494-to-make-6128295

 

Merrill Lynch Japan said $494 to produce at launch.  I believe them.  $800 - no way a company would accept a $300 loss on a console.  I say it was planned and launched within 7 months due to other source I've got - which I can't substantiate for you.  Although they are correct.

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Re: Wii now $109.00 retail, going the Dreamcast route

Jan 15, 2013

JonathanCarabalo wrote:

"IMO all your assessments are way off.  I do agree that the Wii isn't selling as well as it once did, but it has sold more than either the PS3 or X360 (25% more) plus all their consoles were sold at a profit. So financially Nintendo has done better this generation, so even if the WiiU stumbles, Nintendo can clearly afford it.  Nintendo's greatest strengths is their franchise games (Mario, Zelda, etc.), they can survive pretty much on that alone.  I don't see the connection you are making between Rare & the PS2. Nintendo sold Rare to Microsoft, IMO Rare has gone downhill because the founders left the company and Microsoft changed their management structure..."

 

Profit is a little important - but in itself doesn't mean much if your market is completely taken over by someone else.  I said that Wii is, from here on out, going the Dreamcast route.  Which at $109.00, and with only 5 million sales in 2012, seems to be teh case.  They'll like sell just 2 million in 2013 - at this rate.  If not less.   

 

For their franchises - Super Mario Bros. Galaxy, the New Super Mario Bros. U, Mario Kari Wii, and Super Smash Bros. have sold a lot for Wii, so they still have that.  But notice none are in the next-gen department.  That market was taken by by Sony in 2001 - this is in the casual gamer market, which is being taken by Sony now in 2012/2013. 

 

As for Rare and PS2 - Rare's market was taken by Playstation 2 in 2000.  Since then - none of Rare's games have sold that much, or have approached the high quality they achieved before 2000.  The Stamper brothers left Rare at the start of 2007 - but nothing they made has sold since 2000 - the last title that was any good was Perfect Dark for N64.  This is because the high-end, next-gen game marketplace was taken by Sony starting in 2000.  Rare's sales have gone downhill, but not Rare.  Their market was simply taken by Sony.  They've got to join Sony.  Become a 2nd party developer for Sony. 


Excuse me? Profit is of little importance?!? It is the most important thing! I am sure that Sony would trade places with Nintendo in a heartbeat if they could make the profit they did in this generation.

 

I don't see any correltation between the Wii and the Dreamcast. The Wii did very well because it was very new an unique compared to Sony and Microsoft, and it was a lot cheaper too. The market for the Wii simply saturated, and many causual players only purchased a few games and stopped buying, In other words the Wii was a fad for many people.

 

Where are you getting this $109 figure, the official price of the Wii currently is $130. If you see it for less, it probably is specific to that store.

 

It is not quite correct to say that Sony too over Nintendo's market, because they largely target different demographics.

 

Nintendo largely targets casual and family games.

Sony largely targets older gamers.

Microsoft probably has the most diverse target audience (games for young and older gamers).

 

It is probably more accurate to say that kids that grew up with the Wii have moved on to the X360 & PS3.

 

Again I don't see any correlation between Rare and the PS2. A lot has happened since Donkey Kong Country. They certainly should have been able to shine doing games for the X360, but it just didn't happen. I thought Nintendo was crazy for selling Rare to Microsoft, but now I see why....

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Re: Wii now $109.00 retail, going the Dreamcast route

Jan 15, 2013

JonathanCarabalo wrote:

Oh yes ISuppli said $800+, it was a different source that said $494.  This one:

 

http://www.gamespot.com/news/report-ps3-to-sell-for-399-cost-494-to-make-6128295

 

Merrill Lynch Japan said $494 to produce at launch.  I believe them.  $800 - no way a company would accept a $300 loss on a console.  I say it was planned and launched within 7 months due to other source I've got - which I can't substantiate for you.  Although they are correct.


But why should anyone believe you if you can't back it up?  Several sources support the WiiU being in development long before you suggest.  Project Cafe was widely discussed in 2011, and they even had early versions of the console at E3 2011.  It's also just common sense that they would start developing the next system well in advance of its release, and possibly even start planning it as soon as the current system is released.

 

As for the PS3 price at launch, they estimated in the article you link that it would cost Sony $494, but they also believed it would cost $400.  So regardless of who is better at estimating its value, they still agreed it was sold at a loss.

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Re: Wii now $109.00 retail, going the Dreamcast route

[ Edited ]
Jan 15, 2013

JonathanCarabalo wrote:

Yawaru: "lol I really have to wonder if people post these comments as jokes. I'll tell you what Nintendo needs to do to turn everything around: make a new IP. One new character is all they'd need to force people to crawl to stores on their hands and knees begging for a console. I'll give you that the Wii U launch looks a bit shakey, but compare it to say... PS3 launch! Great console now you say, back then Sony was eating 250-300$ losses every console they sold, launch titles were meh at best. Wii U doesn't have any stand out launch titles, Mario is overdone, Zombies are played out, AC3 and Darksiders 2 are late ports, Nintendoland is fun but it's not packed in with the 4 gig units, which is probably going to hurt them in the long run. People latched on to Wii sports and it ended up selling units to demographics no one ever dreamed were viable.  As far as Rare goes, the problem isn't "Oh no one likes Rare anymore" the problem is Microsoft micromanaged them to death, wasted their talents on crappy Kinect games, and made all the talent quit. And guess what, Nintendo made Retro Studio. It's like Rare died and got reincarnated."

 

Actually according to Isuppli, PS3 cost $494 to produce at launch, thus they were selling $500 version at break-even price, and the $600 at a minor profit.  The problem with Wii U is yes, lack of launch titles, but also, it was rushed to market, once Nintendo heard of the coming Playstation 4 via industry spies.  Thus the reason there are lack of launch titles, among other problems such as failed marketing. 


Now I know you don't know what you are talking about. Those $ figures you stated are completely wrong on the PS3. Here are the actual ones:

 


EDIT: OK you used a source dated a year before the PS3 came out, so there is no way that could be accurate. isuppli cost analysis occured after the PS3 was released, and they performed an independent cost analysis of the PS3 components:

 

11_17_2006a.gif

 

It was actually more costly to make the 20GB version of the PS3 than the 60GB, which is why Sony halted its production soon after it was introduced.

 

The Wii U launch is pretty much on par with other launches in terms of the amount of launch titles. I don't think it was rushed, IMO it was more that Nintendo needed a system that had games that looked on par with Microsoft & Sony's, since Wii games looked pretty dated at this point....

 

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