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Mar 06 2013
By: LordDeff07 Lombax Warrior 91 posts
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THE PROBLEM AND THE SOLUTION.... Help me make them listen.

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11 replies 205 views Edited Mar 6, 2013

This may be a long one, but it will be worth the read and something I feel affects all of us.

 

$60 for a game. Thats what this is about.

 

First off, that $60 sticker pirce you see has got a lot of hands digging into it. Sony, dev(R&D), publisher, retailer marketing..... all gets a cut. Now whats funny is that publishers/devs get around $30 from that $60 on average. Meaning that they have to sell at least 1M copies of a game to simply break even. generally, this works out for them and they do break even... but in most cases barely. There are a number of problems with this though.

 

$60 is simply asking too much. Its not saying that most gamers can't or won't spend $60 for that game that we love, but its not rocket science here... it simply means you will spend less money buying games. Less and less money actually. Then that lends to the ralization tht you don't need to buy that many games to begin with, not cause we don't want to... but teher are simply too many other things to do with money. At the end of the day, we start spending $35 a month to allow us rent 3 games or start buying used games or God forbid pirate games. (more gamers pirated dead space 2 than those that actually bought it).

 

This is the real problem hardcore gaming is facing today, weather we want to admit it or not. Used games, piracy, the increasingly diminishing number of actual games sales, rentals...... these are all by products of the real problem. And that is that that asking price is simply too much. So gamers would find ways to allevate that problem, which in turn hurts that much loved bottom line.

 

The solution... and its benefits.

 

Lets look at august to October...... take for instance you have $200 and also that during these  month, The last of Us, beyond 2 souls, BF4, Bioshock infinate, tomb raider, watchdogs, diablo and lets just thrown in 3 PSN games are all coming out. Thats $450 right there for 10 games of which you can really only buy 3 $60 games and 2 PSN games. This doesn't mean we wouldn't love to play the other games... but we simply can't afford them. So somthing has to give.

 

So we rent, or buy used..... this is the position that we have been forced into. we do not have a choice, why should I spend $450 on all those games when I could spend $200 over a similar perid and still get them or buy them used for a little more than that? So at the end of the day, they aren't really getting my money when i am buying used and all the hard work by the devs is not rewarded. I as a gamer will not be playing all the games I would have loved to play cause I cannot afford them all considering I actually have a life outside gaming. So here is my solution.

 

Digital distribution.... but not like the cut throat way its implemented right now. 

 

Yes, physical copies of the games should still be made available, and let them cost the $60 that they have to cost considering all the hands that are in that pot. Let the gamers that can only buy physical and that are willing or have the funds to spend on a $60 game buy them. But same day digital downloads should be available... and most IMPORTANTLY.... for half the price.

 

Pricing digital downloads of every game for $30 will completely and immediatly change gaming as we know it. $100 no longer gets you one game but 3 games. We strat to have impulse purcheses of AAA games and not just $10 PSN games. More games gets played, more franchises can thrive more money is made all round. At $30 a game, gamers won't buy used cause well, digitally its cheaper, gamers may still rent but at least devs get a cut outta that. Gamers will always pirate, but then it would become harder to do and more unnecesary.

 

Yes, I know not everyone can download a 12-30Gb game, but in time that will change and those that can will at least be able to. And when you think of it, gamers don't seem to have a problem downloading a 7-12GB pirated game!

 

I don't know why this is so hard to see, but the fact of the matter is that what they lose in getting $60 from one person buying one game, they will make more from 3 people paying $30 for that same game. more people will play that game, there would be more word of mouth... and when friend A tells friend B.... "hey, there is this awesome game called heavy rain... its kinda wierd but its great" ; the first thing that crosses friend B's mind wouldn't be " sounds cool, but thats $60 right there"

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Welcoming Committee
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Re: THE PROBLEM AND THE SOLUTION.... Help me make them listen.

Mar 6, 2013

I have compared this to buying a new or used car.

 

If I'm buying a new car and I know the trade-in is higher, then I would be willing to pay more for the car.  If I know they instantly depreciate down to nothing, then I will pay less or just not buy it.

 

Sony keeps talking about locking down the games to one console, meaning you can't sell your game.  This is the exact opposit way to go.  And if they ever succeed in doing this, then MS has an immediate winning strategy when competing against Sony.  Just like Chevy and Ford, XBox can brag about their games' resale value.

 

Trade-in value of an XBox game: $20.00

Trade-in value of a PS game: $0.00

 

But don't take our word for it.  Just call any Gamestop or other gaming store to verify.  Microsoft.  Because we still love you.

 

Seriously, Sony.  It took me 3 seconds to come up with that ad idea.  MS could do far better and may already have the commercials filmed.  Dedicated games are such a bad idea.  You will be making Microsoft (the inventor of "nagware") to come out looking like they care about people over profits.

 

Such a bad idea.

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Keyblade Wielder
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Re: THE PROBLEM AND THE SOLUTION.... Help me make them listen.

[ Edited ]
Mar 6, 2013

I would get on board with digital downloads at a reduced price. But to pay full retail for a digital version the same as a hard copy I cannot nor will not ever do. There's no cost to package, provide game covers for, no shipping, no paying staff to receive it when it arrives, that all cuts costs right there and just that alone I will never support paying the same price for digital as hard copy.

 

I can get on board with all of the above statements.  Sell by volume by reducing the price. I know I would personally get into way more games than I do if prices were lower out the door.  I am also not a fan of having to pay for an online pass for muliplayer play if a game is used.  That's just big money trying to hurt your game rental stores/companies way of making a living.

 

This is business though... forget about what your consume wants (which may acutally lead to making more money) and do what you can to lock yourself into some niche and hope that making yourself look "exclusive" is going to garner sales.

 

Get rid of online passes, don't charge the same for digital as hard copy, drop overall price.  It sounds simple and I am sure there is more to it than that. Just my two cents.

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: THE PROBLEM AND THE SOLUTION.... Help me make them listen.

Mar 6, 2013
Thing though, is that the physical copies of games will always be there. Just at the usual $60. The real kicker here is the digital downloads. Which should come in at half the price ($30). Now they want you to buy digital instead, cause that means its tied to your account and there will be no resale. The lower price is not only the incentive for that, but also to make it easier for you to impulse buy.

People that still want to spend $60 on a physical copy will have the game available to them.

But you know what? If sony actually did this, practically everyone claiming they would always prefer a physical copy would go digital.... why? Its simply cheaper.
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Lombax Warrior
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Re: THE PROBLEM AND THE SOLUTION.... Help me make them listen.

Mar 6, 2013
exactly....

Its ridiculous that digital copies are sold at physical copy prices... how does that even make any kinda sense?

And its really obvious, no one si saying they shouldnt keep the prices of the physical copy as is... but the digital option and at half the price should always be there. The person that does this first, be it sony or MS... will literally dominate the industry... even if the next person jumps in later. The midshare advantage will always be theres.
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PlayStation Community Manager (Retired)
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Re: THE PROBLEM AND THE SOLUTION.... Help me make them listen.

Mar 6, 2013

DrGadget wrote:

 

 

Sony keeps talking about locking down the games to one console, meaning you can't sell your game.  


You have a source for us saying this?  I ask because the all official public commentary on the topic of used games from us can be summed up in this Tretton quote, "...for the record, I'm totally opposed to blocking used games. I think it's great for the consumer that they can buy those. We have a customer that buys our console late in the cycle, pays less, is looking for value priced games, and I think it would be anti-consumer for us to do that,".  More recently Shu Yoshida has been quoted directly stating "Used games can play on a PS4,".

 

The "blocking used games" and "PS4 can't play used games" commentary is a hugely misinterpreted rumor spawned from a patent our parent company filed that had no clear direct tie to PlayStation 4.  People just assumed, and ran with it, as they often do with patent rumors.

 

As for the digital vs. retail pricing issue.  How much of a kick in the gut would it be if Microsoft or Sony started undercutting their retail partners?  What if we saw BestBuy selling CoD for $60 retail, but decided to sell it at $50 just because we could?  Do we just say "Hey thanks for selling our consoles and peripherals, but we're gonna backstab you on the software side?"  Bad business, in my opinion. This is just *one* reason for the pricing parity.

 

As for the overall price, and available funds of the end user, I'm not going to go too deeply into it, but there's a reason they are priced what they are.  And a reason Tretton has been quoted at the "99 cent to 60 dollar" range for next gen pricing as well.  It's not a randomly decided number, and it's not decided upon without a boatload of research and data.  Do you really think that people who get paid to do set these prices don't have these conversations too?  Don't you think their end goal is to keep customers returning for repeat purchases through their lives as gamers?  There's a reason why places like Harvard, IBM and Forbes have entire groups dedicated to calculating and measuring Customer Lifetime Value. That reason is to help decide pricing of goods and services for longterm health of a given industry.  Gaming is no different.

Tempest_Fire
Ex-PlayStation Network Senior Community Manager
Sony Interactive Entertainment America
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Keyblade Wielder
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Re: THE PROBLEM AND THE SOLUTION.... Help me make them listen.

[ Edited ]
Mar 6, 2013

All very good points Tempest.  I understand the business side of it mostly, I get the OP's point of view as well. That's why when I threw my opinion out there I said to cover my butt that there is more to it.  I don't understand every single aspect of it.  I get the bad business you mention about Best Buy and underselling them on price on software.  I just can't personally justify paying the same for it when I know it costs less to make available digitally then a hard copy.

 

Maybe something like a Best Buy being able to sell a code for a title instead of a hard copy? I'm sure that's been discussed too.  A lot goes on with decisions like this and I am sure are not taken lightly.

 

 

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: THE PROBLEM AND THE SOLUTION.... Help me make them listen.

Mar 6, 2013

Tempest_Fire wrote:

DrGadget wrote:

 

 

Sony keeps talking about locking down the games to one console, meaning you can't sell your game.  


You have a source for us saying this?  I ask because the all official public commentary on the topic of used games from us can be summed up in this Tretton quote, "...for the record, I'm totally opposed to blocking used games. I think it's great for the consumer that they can buy those. We have a customer that buys our console late in the cycle, pays less, is looking for value priced games, and I think it would be anti-consumer for us to do that,".  More recently Shu Yoshida has been quoted directly stating "Used games can play on a PS4,".

 

The "blocking used games" and "PS4 can't play used games" commentary is a hugely misinterpreted rumor spawned from a patent our parent company filed that had no clear direct tie to PlayStation 4.  People just assumed, and ran with it, as they often do with patent rumors.

 

As for the digital vs. retail pricing issue.  How much of a kick in the gut would it be if Microsoft or Sony started undercutting their retail partners?  What if we saw BestBuy selling CoD for $60 retail, but decided to sell it at $50 just because we could?  Do we just say "Hey thanks for selling our consoles and peripherals, but we're gonna backstab you on the software side?"  Bad business, in my opinion. This is just *one* reason for the pricing parity.

 

As for the overall price, and available funds of the end user, I'm not going to go too deeply into it, but there's a reason they are priced what they are.  And a reason Tretton has been quoted at the "99 cent to 60 dollar" range for next gen pricing as well.  It's not a randomly decided number, and it's not decided upon without a boatload of research and data.  Do you really think that people who get paid to do set these prices don't have these conversations too?  Don't you think their end goal is to keep customers returning for repeat purchases through their lives as gamers?  There's a reason why places like Harvard, IBM and Forbes have entire groups dedicated to calculating and measuring Customer Lifetime Value. That reason is to help decide pricing of goods and services for longterm health of a given industry.  Gaming is no different.


There are a number of things not quite right with what you are saying.... first off, you talk about under cutting their partners when referring to best buy and the likes. we shouldn't suffer cause sony is trying to keep the bestbuys of the world happy. And in case you don't know, the bestbuys get a cut from selling the console so its not like they are doing it for free to begin with.

 

Secondly, that much researched $60 price tag? I am not saying there is anything wrong with it, hell.... I actually know in more detail exactly who gets what from that price tag. All I'll say is that the retailer gets around $10- $15 from that price. Not my problem, let them have their price; but for you to refer to digital vs. physical with reference to a price "parity" and it being bad for business in relation to the physical vendors means that you at least aknowlege that lower priced online games would sell more. And by that I don't see why you seem against it.

 

The current business model of console gaming is archaic at best. Made in a time when the only way to get content was to walk into a store and pick it up. Everything else has moved on and changed, more people digitally aquire (be it purchase or stream) movies than there are that actually buy a physical copy of a blu-ray or DVD. And those that aren't paying for the content are simply pirating the hell out of it. Times are changing.... and the industry should change with it.

 

Sony is already indicating that every PS4 game will be available same day digitally with their physical copy. Thats a good start, what is important here is that there is a great opportunity to digitally price the games in such a way that it will give a boost to the industry.... I say to hell with the bestbuys and co.... those are just retailers looking to get their own cut. When more and more gamers opt to go mobile and buy bite sized games, or even go th steam route and buy digital games at $40 a pop, the poeple that really would suffer are the likes of sony/ms, not best buy.

 

Adopting a business model such as this is really going to be best for everyone, or at least the majority.

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Gaming Beast
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Re: THE PROBLEM AND THE SOLUTION.... Help me make them listen.

Mar 6, 2013

I think digital downloads should be cheaper, maybe even 50% and this is why.

 

Buying a physical game.

                           Cost of Bluray Disc

                           Cost of printing onto Bluray Disc

                           Cost of manual (which now is like only 2 pages)

                           Cost of extra inserts in the case

                           Cost of Bluray Case

                           Cost of Bluray Case sleeve

                           Cost of Shipping it to store

                           Cost of machinery to burn/print the discs

                              

 

Buying a Digital game.

                            Cost of converting it to digital

                            Cost of keeping it on the server

                            REST PROFIT

 

With every game you download it is just about 100% profit, so they make a steal when people buy online.  Vs. Physical games.

 

What we loose by buying digital vs physical is HDD Space.

 

45 PS3 games physical = just updates

45 PS3 games digital @ 2gb per game = 90Gbs

45 PS3 games digital @ 10gb per game = 450Gbs.

 

I compared with 45 physical games because that is how many I own.  With everything going digital we WILL run out of HDD space one way or another.  Once HDD is full you have to upgrade.

I made this, want one for yourself? PM me
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Limit Breaker
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Re: THE PROBLEM AND THE SOLUTION.... Help me make them listen.

Mar 7, 2013

"anti-consumer"

 

ya, SONY would never do anything to be anti-consumer....well, removing backwards compatability doesnt count...and doing it again because the customers ultimately decided to take that one with a quart of vasoline.

 

But, like I said..that doesnt count. Smiley LOL

 

Oh, and neither does putting "on-boot" DRM into your machine(PC) back in the day...that...uh, doesnt count either.

RE-THINK SALAD


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