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Re: Is the notion of right and wrong clearly defined?

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May 7, 2013

DrGadget wrote:

Setzaroth wrote:

Gen 4:15 speaks of putting a 'mark' on him, which is generally believed to be dark skin. There are other scriptures that reference that but I dont remember where to find them.


Someone has lied to you in God's name.

 

I think what you meant to say was Canaan.  Noah had three sons - Shem, Ham, and Japeth.  Canaan was the son of Ham.

 

Cain (as in Cain and Abel) was the first man born, and the first murderer.  He was evil.  Nobody alive is descended from Cain.  Noah's genealogy goes back to Seth, who was Adam and Eve's third known son.  Abel was dead, and Cain was exiled.  The genealogy from Adam to Seth to Noah is recorded in Genesis 5.  Cain is not in there.  His entire line died off completely.

 

The Bible does not single out any particular race as being evil.  It's very clear that we're all evil.

Romans 5:12 (KJV) Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Romans 3:23 (KJV) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Romans 6:23 (KJV) For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

Romans 3:10-12 (KJV)

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

 

These are very strong condemnations against all Mankind, not just one race that some guy tries to single out for his own evil purposes.  We're all equally corrupted by sin.  We all equally deserve to die.  We're all equally undeserving of God's mercy.  We're all equally in need of a Savior.


No, I knew what I typed, I think that notion stemmed from that general consensus about a century ago, many denominations believed and/or chose to use that to justify slavery I believe.

 

And in regards to the story of Canaan, Im familiar with that one too, also another biblical discrepancy as that story makes no sense either, canaan did nothing and yet hes the one cursed? 

 

And since we're on the subject, whats with the radical change in Gods personality from nukeing cities full of gay people and using Job as a ragdoll to prove to satan that he will still be loyal...to full on destroying the world except for noah and a few others...and then in the new-testament, its basically all love and rainbows in comparison, granted there are still some messed up things that happen, but still..

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Re: Is the notion of right and wrong clearly defined?

May 7, 2013
I'm Christian (before I say this), I find it amazing that some non-believers know more about Christianity that a lot of believers do. (This is directed at NO ONE. I've noticed this for a while)
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Re: Is the notion of right and wrong clearly defined?

May 8, 2013

DrGadget wrote:

Right and wrong are clearly defined in the Bible.

 

These days, many people no longer believe in the Bible, forcing them to create their own standards of right and wrong, which is also wrong.  Refer to the Book of Judges where everyone did what ws right in their own eyes (as opposed to doing right in the sight of the Lord).  Man's personal ability to identify right and wrong is sorely lacking.  It becomes quickly evident that nobody can agree 100% with anyone else, so this leads people to the false belief that there is no objective or absolute definition of right and wrong.

 

Others start with the Bible and try to "improve" upon it, under the delusion that they can come up with better rules than a perfect God.  All too often, this becomes a mental trap that leads people to believe there is no God.  Ex:

I don't see how a loving God could send anyone to Hell, therefore there is no God.  Another mental trap is when people say, "If I was God, I would have done this instead..."  You must first have enough arrogance to believe you can make a better decision that God can.  Yeah, why don't you go ahead and correct some of God's many mistakes?  <--mockery  You can't correct God's mistakes because He doesn't make any.

 

It never occurs to them that God operates on a level so far above our limited mentality, just as it says in Isaiah 55:8-9.  But then these people have never read that passage, nor the others that speak of God's great wisdom and intellect.

 

You can usually spot these people very quickly when you start a serious conversation with them.  They'll say something along these lines:

"I believe in God and the Bible and all that BUT..."  And from there they will proceed to explain why they really don't believe in "God, the Bible, and all that".  If they really did believe, then they wouldn't be constantly talking all this new age nonsense.

 

In our schools we are currently teaching children that there is no right or wrong.  Everything is subjective to how you "feel about it".  That doesn't work in reality.  If I'm mugging you at gunpoint, I would probably feel pretty good about getting some extra cash from your wallet, even if you don't feel so good about getting mugged.  BTW in a court of law, when you can't tell the difference between right and wrong you are clinically insane.

 

A few years ago I was at work talking to someone about objective right and wrong, absolute good, and absolute evil.  We were having a pretty deep discussion until this over-educated new age nitwit showed up to inject his two cents' worth into a conversation nobody invited him into.  I could almost see his college professor's marionette strings being activated as he parroted his new age drivel.  He said, "Everything is relative.  There is no absolute.  Nothing is absolute."

 

And then he just stood there and smirked at me with his "Look how smart I am" smirk.

 

Immediately I asked him, "Are you absolutely sure of that?"

 

It took a few seconds for what I was asking to sink in, past the many layers and layers of nonsense he had been taught as fact back in idiot school.  His smug little smirk soon changed to a look of confusion, and then sorrow.  He then said the smartest thing I ever heard him say: nothing.  He closed his mouth, turned around, and walked away.  I had utterly owned him with that question, to the point where he was left speechless and indefensible.

 

The guy I was talking to told me that he was thinking up a million different retaliations to his drivel about nothing being absolute, but what I said was so much more powerful.

 

However, what should have been a "zen moment" in his life was fleeting, and had no observable lasting effect on him.  By the end of the day he was back to talking his endless stream of nonsense.  After I had decapitated his false god of Relativism, he went back to worshipping it.  As far as I know he's never gotten any wiser.

 

 

 

 

 

P.S.  In case you didn't catch it, the new age guy said nothing is absolute.  I asked him if he was absolutely sure of that.

If he said yes, then he was a hypocrite for having absolute certainty that nothing can ever be absolute.  So how can he be certain?

If he said no, then it only proves he was talking out of his posterior without ever engaging the brain cells.  If you're not absolutely certain of something, why are you saying it like it's a proven fact?

 

His philosophy of Relativism was a joke, easily destroyed by me saying 6 simple words.  Sadly, he had already based his entire life on this doctrine, and was unwilling to tear it all down and start over.

 

Frankly I was surprised that he was smart enough to realize just how screwed he was for saying something so stupid in my presence, as evidenced by his shutting up and walking away.  Which was the ONLY smart thing I had seen that particular person ever do.


Well  read the book a of  adam and eve. when they ate the fruit they gain the knowledge of morals and  right and wrong..

 

 From that day forward god gave them/us  rules to obey for those right and   wrongs.  So in  everything just, and yes there is a absolute. life and death are absolute..  life is  part of death and vise versa..   We all  will die becuase we all lived thats 100% certain.   Maybe not spiritually but  physically  we will..

 

Mcbuttz78

vp-psn legioniaree group.

Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past, Wisdom is of the future

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Re: Is the notion of right and wrong clearly defined?

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May 8, 2013

NikeMurphDawg wrote:
I'm Christian (before I say this), I find it amazing that some non-believers know more about Christianity that a lot of believers do. (This is directed at NO ONE. I've noticed this for a while)

Ah, yes, thats because "believers" as it were, simply have their beliefs re-inforced by going to church every sunday (if they even do that) and the ones that even read the Bible on their own time dont udnerstand most of what they read because of analogies the western world isnt familiar with and because of all the parts that are missing.

 

"Non-believers" if thats the label we're going with, are simply looking for answers. True, some simply undermine and attempt to ruin, but most are seeking truth...and in that they see, and find things that "believers" either simply dont notice or totally ignore because it may challenge their belief if they cant understand something

 

Example: Where do dinosouars fit into the creation?

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Re: Is the notion of right and wrong clearly defined?

May 8, 2013
^I've asked that myself.... I know most of what I know about the Bible from my highschool Bible class I took last year.
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Re: Is the notion of right and wrong clearly defined?

May 8, 2013

DrGadget wrote:

NikeMurphDawg wrote:
Budzer, I believe your intent was to start an argument, and Gadget knew where you were going. Don't be 'that guy'.

This.

 

He likes to sow the seeds of dischord and despair.  He's all about anti-capitalists and post-modernist stuff, and has no moral center, as you can see by looking at his post history.  There's never anything helpful or useful.  It's all "Screw you capitalist!  You'll be dead soon."  Look at his last few posts.  He does this to everyone, but especially to me.  He finds it particularly irksome that I don't buy into his doom and gloom might as well commit suicide philosophy.  There's far less to him than meets the eye.

 

He follows me around on other forums as well - not just this one - trying to undermine me and everything I stand for (truth, morality, not communism).  He'll try to quote something it looked like I said but I really didn't, twist it around into a straw man, and mock it for a while.  Then he'll come back and pretend to be crazy and fake-agree with what I said to make me look crazy.

 

This is not random lunacy on his part.  This is very much targeted.  I know exactly who he is and what he is.  He's no random stranger.  He holds a particular grudge against me just for being me.  I wouldn't give you two cents for this guy.

 

Like I said, he doesn't speak for me.  I never need his help to express an idea.  Never.  He's no benefit to anyone.

 

Unfortunately he already is "that guy".  I don't think he will ever change.  I've already tried and failed.  He's very set in his ways.


lol that's not true. I don't follow you around. I go to one other forum that you go to and I've been there longer than you have so you can't say I followed you. Everyone there knows you're a loon, it's not like I'm the lone dissenter. 

 

also I think I have more respect for life in general than you do, so don't say I'm some kind of nihilist. You were the guy who had his kids scrape their dead dog off the pavement and scoop the pieces into garbage bags. You're the guy who said that Occupy Wallstreet needed to be solved by the police massacring everyone.

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Re: Is the notion of right and wrong clearly defined?

May 8, 2013
I think most here like DrGadget.
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Re: Is the notion of right and wrong clearly defined?

May 8, 2013

Almost 7,000 posts and only 1 KUDO? I cant bring myself to believe anyone really likes you BudZer777

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Re: Is the notion of right and wrong clearly defined?

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^lolololololol wowzers
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Re: Is the notion of right and wrong clearly defined?

May 8, 2013

Setzaroth wrote:

And since we're on the subject, whats with the radical change in Gods personality from nukeing cities full of gay people and using Job as a ragdoll to prove to satan that he will still be loyal...to full on destroying the world except for noah and a few others...and then in the new-testament, its basically all love and rainbows in comparison, granted there are still some messed up things that happen, but still..


It's coming. God has been saving up His wrath.  The Book of Revelation is where He really exhausts His full vengeance.  The judgments in Revelation make the OT look like a walk in tha park.

 

Jesus strongly rebuked the Pharisees.  Jesus said about Capernaum that if He had done the same miracles in Sodom and Gomorrah, the people would have repented and the cities would still be there.

 

Likewise, in the Book of Revelation, God begins pouring out His wrath and judgment upon the world.  Over and over again, it says, "...and the people repented not."  Toward the end, people fully understand that it's God doing all this and they still don't repent.  It's one thing if you don't believe in God.  Why should you repent, right?  But these people believe in God but cling tightly to their sins.

 

There's faith, and then there's saving faith.

 

James 2:19

[19] Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

 

Satan believes in God, because he knows God personally.  So do all the other devils.  That doesn't mean he or they have a saving faith.  The people in Revelation getting hammered by God's wrath will know it's God doing it in judgment of their sins, but they will refuse to repent from their sins and be saved.

 

God hasn't changed.  Of all the adjectives to describe God, these three remain the most important: holy, holy, holy.  Above everything and anything else about God, He is holy.  We're all sinners.  We all deserve death and hell.  None of us is righteous enough to stand confidently before a holy God.

 

Without the impossible sacrifice, all of us would be destroyed eventually as we contradict God's holiness.  But then John 3:16 happened.  I hear people complain all the time that God only made one way to get into Heaven.  How many ways do you need?  People should be grateful that He made ANY way into Heaven.  We were incapable of doing it ourselves.  Any other way into Heaven would be more difficult.

Climb Mount Everest wearing only a bathing suit.

Chop off your leg.

Donate a million dollars to charity.

 

No matter what hypothetical way you may come up with for getting saved, it would be more difficult than God's plan.  So why would anyone complain?


There is plenty of vengeance, wrath, and judgment to come.  It will total more than the entirety of the Old Testament.  God's holiness must still be satisfied.  That has never changed.

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