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First Son
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Re: Edward Snowden - Hero or Villain?

Jun 30, 2013
Yeah I know, I messed up on my embed, it happens, and I got lazy on the edit, I'm at work and got a call.
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Re: Edward Snowden - Hero or Villain?

Jun 30, 2013
No as in your video was stupid.
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First Son
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Re: Edward Snowden - Hero or Villain?

Jun 30, 2013
Hmm, well it made me laugh, sorry you couldn't enjoy it.
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Re: Edward Snowden - Hero or Villain?

Jun 30, 2013
When someone signs up for a job serving an intel agency they know its not going to be boy scout stuff. So why was he surprised they did shady things? That's like signing up to work at a butcher shop and being a vegetarian.

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Re: Edward Snowden - Hero or Villain?

Jun 30, 2013

Shaggster0920 wrote:

So here's the thing PRISM is a bad program all around, that goes without being said. When the information was released he was absolutely a hero to many people. The issue comes when he travels to China or Russia with secret information and even possibly Venezuela (a very vocal anti-American country). So my conclusion is y es, he did right by informing the population of this information, however seeking refuge in the locations he chose to make him a questionable person.


I can understand where you're coming from on this but here's my view. Most people think that China is an enemy of USA which sure both countries disagree on various matters but at the same time they are the world's biggest trading partners. China owns a massive amount of American debt. Where Snowden went was Hong Kong which is a seperate autonomous island of China.

 

The reason Edward Snowden has gone to these countries so far is because if he went anywhere else, that country would fold under U.S pressure to extradite him immediately. Especially is said country was a U.S ally. Russia isn't an enemy of the U.S either. They just disagree on certain matters as well. I love President Putin, he's extremely thoughtful and well spoken.

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Re: Edward Snowden - Hero or Villain?

Jun 30, 2013

DELTA_TEAM_LEADR wrote:
When someone signs up for a job serving an intel agency they know its not going to be boy scout stuff. So why was he surprised they did shady things? That's like signing up to work at a butcher shop and being a vegetarian.

I can agree to a certain extent here. It really comes down to what type of projects and operations are taking place. If you were part of a meeting with the CIA, the Food and Drug Admin, and the World Health Organization and they were planning to include a secret ingedient into all types of food without notifying the public or printing the ingredient on the label. This chemical would take 20 years off the life of any who ingest it. The powers that be are making a move towards population control in your country. Is that right? Do these people have the right to choose you will die 20 years early?

 

It comes down to what is moral and what is legal and who should decide what is right for the masses. My example is a little extreme but you get the point lol. The NSA is just mad they got caught. And the CIA? well their past failures speak for themselves lol

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Re: Edward Snowden - Hero or Villain?

Jun 30, 2013
Personally I don't see him as neither as all he did was leak secret information that everyone already knew. It was widely known that the NSA spies on everyone as that's their main job since its creation. Spying, tracking foreign and domestic information is pretty much the description of the agency.

The problem here is that he leaked information that he wasn't supposed to. He didn't blow any whistles as everyone including most foreign governments know that the NSA has been spying and attacking their computers and communication devices. The only thing they lacked is proof, which isn't going to change anything.

It's like me breaking into the FBI HQ and stealing all their sealed documents to tell the world that the FBI investigates crimes potentially committed by US citizens. Am I being a hero? Nope.

The only thing he really did was wake up the people who have ignored the title of that agency and realize that everything they do on the internet and on the phone is not private, which has been true for years.

When it comes to the constitutionality of it, it really depends on how they do it and what is the purpose. As far as everyone knows, everything the NSA is doing is completely legal. National security as shown previously, limits many of the constitutional rights we have and the NSA has been protected for decades via legislation.

So, if anything he should do the time for the crime which he committed. He didn't whistleblow on anything that wasn't already public information. He just leaked the name of the program, the nations targeted, and who is cooperating with the government which only makes the job of the agency harder, but not illegal. Now, is he a villain, no. He's just someone who broke the law.
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First Son
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Re: Edward Snowden - Hero or Villain?

Jun 30, 2013

 


W1Z4RDRY wrote:

Shaggster0920 wrote:

So here's the thing PRISM is a bad program all around, that goes without being said. When the information was released he was absolutely a hero to many people. The issue comes when he travels to China or Russia with secret information and even possibly Venezuela (a very vocal anti-American country). So my conclusion is y es, he did right by informing the population of this information, however seeking refuge in the locations he chose to make him a questionable person.


I can understand where you're coming from on this but here's my view. Most people think that China is an enemy of USA which sure both countries disagree on various matters but at the same time they are the world's biggest trading partners. China owns a massive amount of American debt. Where Snowden went was Hong Kong which is a seperate autonomous island of China.

 

The reason Edward Snowden has gone to these countries so far is because if he went anywhere else, that country would fold under U.S pressure to extradite him immediately. Especially is said country was a U.S ally. Russia isn't an enemy of the U.S either. They just disagree on certain matters as well. I love President Putin, he's extremely thoughtful and well spoken.


I didn't mean to say that I view China or Russia as enemies of the US, though I do realize it came off that way. I was rather just stating that those are countries that by large have very different political views for us, and let's be honeset we'd take sensitive information from anyone running from those countries if they had it (our gubberments loves some informacion). So my worry is that sensitive information could have been shared, however your point of view is very logical, and more likely than my paranoia. 

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I Only Post Everything
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Re: Edward Snowden - Hero or Villain?

Jun 30, 2013

TheJLC wrote:
Personally I don't see him as neither as all he did was leak secret information that everyone already knew. It was widely known that the NSA spies on everyone as that's their main job since its creation. Spying, tracking foreign and domestic information is pretty much the description of the agency.

The problem here is that he leaked information that he wasn't supposed to. He didn't blow any whistles as everyone including most foreign governments know that the NSA has been spying and attacking their computers and communication devices. The only thing they lacked is proof, which isn't going to change anything.

It's like me breaking into the FBI HQ and stealing all their sealed documents to tell the world that the FBI investigates crimes potentially committed by US citizens. Am I being a hero? Nope.

The only thing he really did was wake up the people who have ignored the title of that agency and realize that everything they do on the internet and on the phone is not private, which has been true for years.

When it comes to the constitutionality of it, it really depends on how they do it and what is the purpose. As far as everyone knows, everything the NSA is doing is completely legal. National security as shown previously, limits many of the constitutional rights we have and the NSA has been protected for decades via legislation.

So, if anything he should do the time for the crime which he committed. He didn't whistleblow on anything that wasn't already public information. He just leaked the name of the program, the nations targeted, and who is cooperating with the government which only makes the job of the agency harder, but not illegal. Now, is he a villain, no. He's just someone who broke the law.

Spying on foreign intelligence agencies is normal but to spy on your own citizens reminds me of East Germany. It's unnecesary. What the NSA is doing is recording, storing, filtering and creating portfolios on every U.S national on American soil for future use should the need arise. For example, if you happen to be targeted and put on a list for whatever reason, they can simply pull up your file and attack anything you said.

 

He did break the law but I feel it was in the public's best interest to at least know what is going on.

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I Only Post Everything
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Re: Edward Snowden - Hero or Villain?

Jun 30, 2013

Shaggster0920 wrote:

 


W1Z4RDRY wrote:

Shaggster0920 wrote:

So here's the thing PRISM is a bad program all around, that goes without being said. When the information was released he was absolutely a hero to many people. The issue comes when he travels to China or Russia with secret information and even possibly Venezuela (a very vocal anti-American country). So my conclusion is y es, he did right by informing the population of this information, however seeking refuge in the locations he chose to make him a questionable person.


I can understand where you're coming from on this but here's my view. Most people think that China is an enemy of USA which sure both countries disagree on various matters but at the same time they are the world's biggest trading partners. China owns a massive amount of American debt. Where Snowden went was Hong Kong which is a seperate autonomous island of China.

 

The reason Edward Snowden has gone to these countries so far is because if he went anywhere else, that country would fold under U.S pressure to extradite him immediately. Especially is said country was a U.S ally. Russia isn't an enemy of the U.S either. They just disagree on certain matters as well. I love President Putin, he's extremely thoughtful and well spoken.


I didn't mean to say that I view China or Russia as enemies of the US, though I do realize it came off that way. I was rather just stating that those are countries that by large have very different political views for us, and let's be honeset we'd take sensitive information from anyone running from those countries if they had it (our gubberments loves some informacion). So my worry is that sensitive information could have been shared, however your point of view is very logical, and more likely than my paranoia. 


No problem Smiley Happy There are some folks out there who think Snowden is a Chinese asset. If that was the case I think the most logical thing to do would be stay anonymous, sell the information for millions of dollars and continue to be a spy. Not blow your cover and become hunted by the U.S lol. Just doesn't make any sense.

 

But yeah, just about every country has an open door policy on information from other countries. Snowden could have easily taken thousands of documents and put them on the internet for anyone to obtain but instead he chose not to. Well, the Guardian Newspaper has documents from him that they can decide to release if it's journalistically right to do.

 

----

 

On a sidenote which I don't want to talk about on this thread, I would love to see leaked documents of rock solid evidence on UFOS and aliens. Smiley Tongue

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