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Ghost of Sparta
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Re: Deadly shooting at Newtown, CT

Dec 15, 2012

turbodieseltruck wrote:

fully automatic weapons are not against the law, you send in an application to ATF, wait 6-8 months and then pay a 200$ tax stamp and you can own full auto weapons or you can set up a trust with a lawyer and have them do all the paperwork for you, you might also have to write a letter to your chief police officer about your weapon. And its also possible to own some powerful weapons, You could go online or to a store and buy an AK-47 rifle which fires a 7.62 round, which is pretty powerful. 


Hmm...did not know that. What I've heard is that civilians can't own fully-auto guns. 

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Treasure Hunter
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Re: Deadly shooting at Newtown, CT

Dec 15, 2012
New Hampshire is kind of messed up. You can own a gun and don't need permit. And, don't even have to register it. But, need permit to carry concneal weapon. Messed up. Shouldn't it be both ways.

New Hampshire live free or die. Only way to be.
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Ghost of Sparta
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Re: Deadly shooting at Newtown, CT

Dec 15, 2012

Sir-Climhazzard wrote:

All I'm saying is prevention is 100 times more effective than reaction. And that's a lot of America has done up to this point. We do a lot of reaction and we talk a lot about what should or should not be done but at the end of the day not a lot actually gets DONE and then, surprise, the same tragedies continue to happen again and again.

 

Makes more sense to take the bullets out of the gun to begin with, rather than just trying to avoid being shot after it's too late - if you catch my drift.


So, what happens when criminals ignore the laws and get guns anyway? Even more people suffer because no one can stop them? Better prevention is preparing people with what to do and teaching good gun safety. Let good, stable people carry in public; would you want to try to shoot someone if they had a chance at shooting back, or would you pick an easier target?

 

If only more guys actually did that...

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: Deadly shooting at Newtown, CT

Dec 15, 2012

PhoenixArcher128 wrote:

turbodieseltruck wrote:

fully automatic weapons are not against the law, you send in an application to ATF, wait 6-8 months and then pay a 200$ tax stamp and you can own full auto weapons or you can set up a trust with a lawyer and have them do all the paperwork for you, you might also have to write a letter to your chief police officer about your weapon. And its also possible to own some powerful weapons, You could go online or to a store and buy an AK-47 rifle which fires a 7.62 round, which is pretty powerful. 


Hmm...did not know that. What I've heard is that civilians can't own fully-auto guns. 


Its legal, it depends on your states laws, and Full auto weapons are very exspensive, thousands of dollars for one.



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Treasure Hunter
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Re: Deadly shooting at Newtown, CT

Dec 15, 2012
Gun control laws don't work.



Survivor of an earthquake, hurricane, and multiple tornadoes in one week. g@m
Halladay, Lee, Hamels, Utley, Pence, Price, Longo, Briere, Jags

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Ghost of Sparta
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Re: Deadly shooting at Newtown, CT

Dec 15, 2012

TKearney9 wrote:
Gun control laws don't work.

They do, though...its just not as intended. Or maybe it is as intended, with additional unintended results.

 

In other words, they do keep guns out of people's hands...law-abiding citizens' hands. Which almost always leads to government control (real govenrment control)...which may or may not be the intention of the laws.

 

But...they never keep guns out of criminals' hands. Which may or may not be the (un)intention of the laws.

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Re: Deadly shooting at Newtown, CT

[ Edited ]
Dec 15, 2012

PhoenixArcher128 wrote:

Sir-Climhazzard wrote:

PhoenixArcher128 wrote:

Sir-Climhazzard wrote:

Personally I find it extremely tacky that the first thing people start talking about when things like this happen is how they want to keep their guns. Seriously? There are deceased children and devastated families whose lives will never be the same and the first thing you want to say is "don't take away my gun rights"?

 

This is another horrible tragedy and my heart is seriously broken for these families. I cannot imagine being the mom or dad getting that phone call from the police department.

 

But really people, show some respect for this situation and keep the gun talk where it belongs: on the NRA.org forums in private.


I can see why they do it; after all, many people will immediately call for gun bans after something like this (I have several on my FB that have...no mention of sorrow for the victims or families from at least one of them either, so don't go thinking its just one side) and ignore the fact that a gun ban does not keep people from being shot, and definitely does not stop tragedies like this from happening...just like making drugs illegal does not stop people from using them.

 

There are also many people that do not have much empathy, and, especially if this takes place far away from them, have a hard time relating to the incident. Others just have a hard time feeling for people they will never meet, and there are those who are thinking of what this means for themselves and their families. 

 

I feel for the people that are involved with this horror, and am glad no one I know is directly affected. But...I also do have to think what this can do to myself and my family and friends. I've already seen people falling back on the stupid "its all your fault video games!" argument, and, like I said, have seen too many people calling for gun bans. People do need to slow down and think, but there is also a time to actually discuss what can be done to prevent as much damage from the next attack (and yes, there will be more. Our society's "celebritization" of criminals is a huge problem, and causes other crazies to try to top the last psycho. This one will be no different)

 

 

I also hope I am reading you wrong; that you are not someone supporting overly-strick or an outright ban on guns. I hope that if it is true, you do know that instead of guns, it will be knives, homemade bombs or biological/chemical attacks that hit the next target...or illegal guns. Criminals do not care about the law; they will do anything they can to kill if they intend to. Forcing good people to have less-to-no protection is never a good thing...

One more thing: since gun ownership is protected under the second ammendment, and is a right that all of us can enjoy, it is not something that "belongs" just in private or on one forum; it is a public matter and if you do not wish to discuss it, you do not have to. 


I'm not calling for a ban of all guns, I'm saying that A) children should have limited exposure to weapons even in the form of toys. I can't tell you how many news articles I've read in the past year about toddlers picking up hand guns and shooting them. Yes, partially this is due to bad parenting and people not monitoring their children, but it's also partially due to the fact that we commercialize guns into toys which basically (in the minds of children) tells kids that it's OK to run around with them and shoot things. B) I would prefer semi-automatic assault rifles not be accessible to the public or severely severly limited at the very least.

I know that the root cause here, the common denominator, is mentally unstable individuals who just lose their minds. But, with that said, I also do not think that making it easier to buy assault weapons only to honor the second ammendment is necessarily intelligent or appropriate. I mean, the shooter got the gun from his mother who had legally obtained and registered it. Seriously? I'm sorry - you're a 58 year old mother and you need a semi-automatic assault rifle in a small town in Connecticut because WHY? This is what I'm talking about. No, limiting access won't completely stop all crazy people from killing others but if it had been much more difficult for this woman to obtain a legal registration for this weapon, the may have not been able to get it and 27 lives may have been able to be saved, not to mention the hundreds of other hearts that are now destroyed by the deaths of these young kids. All because of mass murder weapon that Ms. Lanza registered to herself for god only knows why - but if it was for her "protection", a simple hand gun is normally sufficient if there's a burglar in your house.


That is bad parenting. Plain and simple. A parent needs to teach their kids what's safe and what's not, and should know better than to leave something dangerous lying around, especially with the safety off. They need to teach their kids not to touch anything that isn't theirs and always ask before doing so. Blame this "glorification of guns" if you want to, but I'm pretty sure in the past people handled guns around little kids and didn't really have this issue. Then again, at one point parents actually were parents...

 

So, you know exactly when and why she had these guns? Why haven't you told the media yet?

For all anyone knows, she's had them for years. Did she serve in the military, and so knows how to handle them? Did she live somewhere where she actually needed them for protection (whether from animals or people)? Does she use them for hunting?

You can't jump to conclusions like you are; maybe she did just register the guns recently, but she could have also had them for a long time. You don't know. Nobody knows right now. And you can be sure that if she didn't have the guns, the shooter would have grabbed them from elsewhere; a friend's, another relative's, perhas some random guy down the road. Or maybe he would have used other, equally dangerous, homemade weapons...But you do know that he was going to kill.

 

Also, aren't fully-auto weapons against the law as it is? And its hard as heck to get anthing really powerful? Keep banning different guns altogether, and how long will it be before you are calling for repealing the ammendment altogether?

Making it harder for good people to get guns will not stop tragedies like this; it will only make them even worse when they use extremely dangerous homemade bombs or chemical weapons, get their hands on fully-auto guns, or do something else that is also very destructive. Getting good people prepared for this kind of thing is what can help, not trying to completely prevent the criminals, who don't give a **bleep** about the laws, from getting guns in the first place (yes, there should be restrictions; background checks and maybe a psych evaluation or something...but I don't think anything much further than that would help). After all...look at how well illegaizing drugs has gone...now, imagine that with guns...not a good picture, is it?

 

What really needs to happen is people getting educated. They need to actually learn how to handle guns, and what to do in this kind of situation. But...this argument can be said for a TON of things as well...and people do not want to learn. People want to just follow...unfortunately, that's not really turning out so well nowadays; not with religious nuts everywhere, people only listening to one political or media person/side and not thinking for themselves. And the people that do know what they are talking about, those who do think for themselves, are sometimes pushed to the finges of society because they do not "fit in" and labled as some sort of "troublemaker" and ignored.

 

The other thing that should happen is people need to stop being so self-centered and report suspicious people. Seriously, if these psychos can be identified before they snap you can prevent things from happening. Unfortunately...no one cares about this option, and no one wants to put the time or effort into it. And no one wants to step on anyone's toes...no, we can't even say "Merry Christmas" to anyone anymore...heck, I wonder how long until "Happy Holidays" is banned...or when people get offended by saying "Hi" to them...


 They make new high powerd guns every  yr a 10mm pistol was debuted    a few years ago .  You can even modify your guns now its not hard to do, they book in the librabry on doing these thing . you tube videos.. Depends on state law  what gun you can have and etc. but  to honest it really a joke.. it no law versus owning a antique or collecting as long firing mechnaics are disabled, but with the right knowledge you put them in condition to be fired. I know this i collect guns in my loe time, i have been military , i have friends with  guns. To be honest with you it no easy answer in how powerful a gun can be is a 22, cal too power. Heck people will get the rifle that 22 caliber lol.

  Well i know it  easy to sit here and say  check the  crazy folks and etc. but the people doing this crimes and things are  crazy, they plot these thing. these  are premeditated  crimes. it sad this happenddd to these kids and in a school.  Like said before times  have changed in the youth of today it not my day where  we  fought in the playground, and next day, you shared lunches and was good friends for years to come. even  when grown up fought over  words. the next day we was friends,  we found common ground

 

 The kids to day  kill you the next day after  afight . They  youtube these events.  My only suggestion from being a gun  person and owner .  they are going to have make a law like the  pedo/rapist law. If  you want to own a   gun you check in the city of your state every 30 days  of the  month come in and register you  still own it. If they dont want to do they,then  monetary  fine them , take away the right to own a gun for so long  and melt all their guns down. if sell the gun without  notifying  the city in 24 hours of the sale fine them $$. take away the right to own for a awhile. Let everyone know in the  commmunity so and so own a gun with a flyer ad. Same as they do with  ped/rapist law

 

  Like  i have said before. it easy to get a  gun same as it was 50 yrs ago , just go  to bad area of town and finds out who selling them.  For 20-50$ you  can get a 22 snub nose   maybe  even a  25 or  32., caliber weapon for 150$. It easier to get gun than  get a work permit or social S card . It has been that way before i was born.

 

    The Nra  and them type of groups value the  dollar not human life. They may  say gun save lives in some cases it do..  But sometimes  it make thing worst. Im a gun owner and you cant say who is crazy and who is not. Who deseve and who doesnt deserve to own protection.. Everybody has the  same right to  life the best way they know how.. Im not  saying  what happen is  right.. I want something to happened to improve the gun  laws. To  the saftey of   kid and commmunity etc

 

 

But  in reality guns from usa makes to much money and the   nra and  the like   make billion of dollars a years  and trust  me  these guys dont  none messing up they  money. . They actually own  and  have elected offical on the pay roll. So  its no easy  ways.   the  answer i see is  try to get law like the pedo/ rapist law for guns. and I  know they  strike it down faster than lighting.

Mcbuttz78

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Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past, Wisdom is of the future

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Treasure Hunter
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Re: Deadly shooting at Newtown, CT

Dec 15, 2012

PhoenixArcher128 wrote:

Sir-Climhazzard wrote:

All I'm saying is prevention is 100 times more effective than reaction. And that's a lot of America has done up to this point. We do a lot of reaction and we talk a lot about what should or should not be done but at the end of the day not a lot actually gets DONE and then, surprise, the same tragedies continue to happen again and again.

 

Makes more sense to take the bullets out of the gun to begin with, rather than just trying to avoid being shot after it's too late - if you catch my drift.


So, what happens when criminals ignore the laws and get guns anyway? Even more people suffer because no one can stop them? Better prevention is preparing people with what to do and teaching good gun safety. Let good, stable people carry in public; would you want to try to shoot someone if they had a chance at shooting back, or would you pick an easier target?

 

If only more guys actually did that...


You know I've heard this argument countless times from pro-gun people/groups. But the argument does not hold water.

 

A. So b/c some criminals/bad people can get guns we should not have more strict gun control? Let's apply that anywhere else in our legal/justice system. How about drugs to start... since criminals/bad people can get drugs lets just stop having drug laws. You see where I'm going with this.

 

B. Look at the statistics of the top 30 industrialized countries and add up all the gun related deaths in a year. That number will not come anywhere close to the number reported in the U.S. in a single year. 

 

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/07/a-land-without-guns-how-japan-has-virtually...

 

No one is saying that guns are going to disappear overnight. In fact even if very tough gun control laws were passed in the US it would take generations for guns to disappear to the levels in other countries. But this will never happen. We live in a society hopelessly in love with violence, guns & drugs and wrap it in a layer of "freedom". Welcome to 'merica. 

 

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Keyblade Wielder
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Re: Deadly shooting at Newtown, CT

Dec 15, 2012
While we might need guns now though, it is the right to carry these guns that got us in this mess to begin with. Think about it this way. Pretty much every illegal gun out there in a criminals hands was once a legal firearm. If we never had access to these guns to begin with, we wouldn't need them nearly as bad.

Not sure if I would really want a gun for protection anyway because once you use that gun, you have to prove your innocence and I have very little faith in our justice system.
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Treasure Hunter
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Re: Deadly shooting at Newtown, CT

Dec 15, 2012

Murderstyle75 wrote:
While we might need guns now though, it is the right to carry these guns that got us in this mess to begin with. Think about it this way. Pretty much every illegal gun out there in a criminals hands was once a legal firearm. If we never had access to these guns to begin with, we wouldn't need them nearly as bad.

Not sure if I would really want a gun for protection anyway because once you use that gun, you have to prove your innocence and I have very little faith in our justice system.


Well it  well debated  that war brings invention to human race,  guns bring wealth to  people not wealthy.. The last part is true, but  1st part is well  deabted ( yu look it up). The nra and likes wil notl give up the mighty dollar for human life.  I dont think  killing someone is  protecting your self. you can alwsy knock them out  cold. or  break they legs. or w/e. the Us  justice system is really a joke to me,

 

 I remember  a incident  where    gurl 22 yrs old  who hit  kid that  13 yrs old  going  85mph in  school zone as he cross the street killing him on impact and kept going. they gave her 4 yrs  2 yrs home probation  house arrest. Now   maybe a few  year later this blk kid about 25 maybe 24 hit  lady from behind in her car but hit killed her, she around 18-  20 yrs old he was going arounf  50-60 mph .. they gave him 38 yrs -  life.

 

 the justice system is messed and when to  comes to peoplel  being shot  it even more messed up. Where i live you  7 yrs  gureenteed  jail time for  a unresgisted gun. and kill some one they have law that you  get jail  time manditory. man slaughter even if that guy  was trying rape your family or the force to cause the actions the be.. That why i   have me lawyer, becuase without it your  pretty much scrwed, I dont they are going make  any  new gun llaws..  

 

 

It been this way  since i was kid.

Mcbuttz78

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Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past, Wisdom is of the future

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