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Wastelander
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Re: Affirmative Action: Yay or Nay?

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Apr 20, 2014

DrGadget wrote:

hannah-goes-rawr wrote:

i mean a perfect example where affirmative action failed was in the dmv last year getting my license renewed and i showed up there at like 6.45a (15m before they opened) and i was like the third person in line. i ended up having to wait for 55 minutes to be seen because 3 of the 4 dmv people (i'm not really sure what you'd call them other than employees) were multilingual and helped others that came in who were disadvantaged in communication. so that left 1 person to help all of the "advantaged" folk and it ended up taking between 15-20 minutes for each "advantaged" individual to get through the dmv.

 


This is more about immigration. 


no.

 

it's about affirmative action - although in this case it's not necessarily legally required. the affirmative action of the scenario is that the dmv tries to structure itself to meet demands of all different sorts of people - including those who can't speak english well. however, because of affirmative action, a "disadvantage" like a language barrier causes "advantaged" (it's not really a **bleep** advantage, but whatever) citizens to have to wait. of course, this is just one example and it happened one time. whether or not this is the norm even at the local dmv is beyond me because i only go there every 4 years to get my license renewed.

 

however there are also cases where affirmative action is helpful. such as grocery stores being required to have ramps for disabled people and age/race/gender can't play a factor in promotion (although it's really easy to lie about it by just spouting off some bs about performance expectations). while some might say those ideas are just good business practices if anyone wants to run a profitable company, there are people who wouldn't want to hire a female for an operations manager or a male for accounting because of gender normative values. however, with affirmative action laws in place, performance is really the only factor that can be considered and so companies who do want to be bias will have to really watch their step as to not **bleep** up and generate a potential lawsuit.

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Welcoming Committee
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Re: Affirmative Action: Yay or Nay?

Apr 21, 2014

hannah-goes-rawr wrote:

DrGadget wrote:

hannah-goes-rawr wrote:

i mean a perfect example where affirmative action failed was in the dmv last year getting my license renewed and i showed up there at like 6.45a (15m before they opened) and i was like the third person in line. i ended up having to wait for 55 minutes to be seen because 3 of the 4 dmv people (i'm not really sure what you'd call them other than employees) were multilingual and helped others that came in who were disadvantaged in communication. so that left 1 person to help all of the "advantaged" folk and it ended up taking between 15-20 minutes for each "advantaged" individual to get through the dmv.

 


This is more about immigration. 


no.

 

it's about affirmative action - although in this case it's not necessarily legally required. the affirmative action of the scenario is that the dmv tries to structure itself to meet demands of all different sorts of people - including those who can't speak english well. however, because of affirmative action, a "disadvantage" like a language barrier causes "advantaged" (it's not really a **bleep** advantage, but whatever) citizens to have to wait. of course, this is just one example and it happened one time. whether or not this is the norm even at the local dmv is beyond me because i only go there every 4 years to get my license renewed.

 


Yeah, that's messed up.  It's not an "advantage" to speak English, at least not in the sense of the DMV.  It should be required as the standard.  You want it in Romanian?  Go to the Romanian embassy down the street and talk to them.

 

And when Congress is looking for cuts to the budget, I can see the people offering multilingual drivers licenses being right at the top of the list.  We're having to hire twice as many people to do the job.  That's senseless.  Meanwhile our credit rating continues to drop.  We as a nation can't pay our bills.

 

Globally, yes.  Speaking English is an advantage.  English is the language of commerce.  It's the language of money.  But once you become a citizen here, it needs to be a standard, not an advantage.  Everyone speaks it.  Everyone writes it.  Everyone reads it.

 

We were smart enough to create and enforce the standards for air traffic controllers in English.  Did you know that ATC officials all aound the world communicate with the pilots in English?  It would make no sense at all for the pilot to speak French and the ATC official to speak Russian.  Planes would crash.  The only intelligent thing to do was to choose one language as the standard.  We had the stroke back then so we decided it would be English.  And so it is.

 

You can't call a pilot advantaged if he speaks English.  It's the standard.  They should all speak English.

 

Rather than put the additional burden on the US taxpayer to have government officials who speak more languages (there are over 100 different languages in the world) it would make far more sense to require people to speak English.

 

Why would you have someone at the DMV who doesn't speak English?  If they don't live here, they don't need a license.  And if they do live here, they should start assimilating into American society just like every generation of immigrants has before.

 

My grandparents came here on the slow boat from Italy.  They made sure their children learned to speak proper English, because it was the right thing to do and they loved their children.

 

This country has enough division.  We should be striving toward unity, not division.  It's tearing us apart.  Everything is in terms of "them" versus "us".  That's division.  Division is a bad thing.  Not having an official language is a source of needless division.

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Re: Affirmative Action: Yay or Nay?

Apr 21, 2014
English needs to be mandatory. If I went to live in Mexico, I'd learn the language. Same should apply to the U.S.
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Re: Affirmative Action: Yay or Nay?

Apr 21, 2014

nasrulez wrote:
English needs to be mandatory. If I went to live in Mexico, I'd learn the language. Same should apply to the U.S.

I agree. It's the exact same in the UK.

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Welcoming Committee
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Re: Affirmative Action: Yay or Nay?

Apr 21, 2014

One thing that makes it harder to emply in the US is how Mexico is not very good in any way, shape, or form. Including its education. Hence why people are trying to get to the US.

 

As someone who took three years of French in high school, I understand that learning a separate language is very difficult. And there are disadvantages with being an immigrant from a poorer nation. 

 

My idea would be to not have special language lines. Rather, they would give them forms in their language to fill out. 


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Fender Bender
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Re: Affirmative Action: Yay or Nay?

Apr 21, 2014

I think Spanish should be one of the official languages in America (or secondary language). 

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Re: Affirmative Action: Yay or Nay?

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Apr 21, 2014

wais_45 wrote:

I think Spanish should be one of the official languages in America (or secondary language). 


That is not ideal at all. One official language is the best way to go in our nation. In third world nations, where you cannot standardize learning or assimilate groups, this would make sense and help, but not in this nation. Everything is built with English at its heart and, as was mentioned earlier, it would be cumbersome to accomodate Spanish speakers. The number of people that ONLY speak Spanish is too small to warrant it, and if a state or county within said state has a massive immigrant population, they can deal with it a local level.


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Re: Affirmative Action: Yay or Nay?

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Apr 21, 2014

bob-maul wrote:

wais_45 wrote:

I think Spanish should be one of the official languages in America (or secondary language). 


That is not ideal at all. One official language is the best way to go in our nation. In third world nations, where you cannot standardize learning or assimilate groups, this would make sense and help, but not in this nation. Everything is built with English at its heart and, as was mentioned earlier, it would be cumbersome to accomodate Spanish speakers. The number of people that ONLY speak Spanish is too small to warrant it, and if a state or county within said state has a massive immigrant population, they can deal with it a local level.


I thought there was a lot of spanish speaking people in America? And with America's history with Spain/Mexico it would make sense to at least make it a Secondary langauge. In Canada, French-Canadians are the minority but it's still one of the official languages. 

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Re: Affirmative Action: Yay or Nay?

Apr 21, 2014

KZMProductionsGT wrote:

Do you agree with Affirmativ action or should it be abolished?


It had a time and place but I feel that time in place was last century. 

 

Today, affirative action is nothing more than institutionalized racism.   Deciding whom gets into what job or school, based off of an individuals race, is wrong.  

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Re: Affirmative Action: Yay or Nay?

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Apr 21, 2014

wais_45 wrote:

bob-maul wrote:

wais_45 wrote:

I think Spanish should be one of the official languages in America (or secondary language). 


That is not ideal at all. One official language is the best way to go in our nation. In third world nations, where you cannot standardize learning or assimilate groups, this would make sense and help, but not in this nation. Everything is built with English at its heart and, as was mentioned earlier, it would be cumbersome to accomodate Spanish speakers. The number of people that ONLY speak Spanish is too small to warrant it, and if a state or county within said state has a massive immigrant population, they can deal with it a local level.


I thought there was a lot of spanish speaking people in America? And with America's history with Spain/Mexico it would make sense to at least make it a Secondary langauge. In Canada, French-Canadians are the minority but it's still one of the official languages. 


Hispanics/Latin origin make up around 17% of our population. But the majority of them are not first generation and speak English (and many do not even speak Spanish...). If you are Canadian, you should know that the French-Canadians in Quebec are prideful as a whole and have laws to ensure that French is a main language (such as equal representation of the language on signs). They essentially force it to be a  language because they try to be their own little nation-state (luckily for Canda, the pro-secession party recently lost big in the elections).

 

Only a small amount of people ONLY speak French in Canada- with French speakers who learned it as their primary language making up a little over 20% of the Canadian population. It is more the older generations that do not know English, and that is only because of Quebec's insistence on maintaining their heritage in the past. 

 

And it proves my point. Leave it to the individual states and provinces that require it. The national government in Canada should not have to deal with Quebec's separatist culture. That is Quebec's problem. Same in the US. If Southern California cities want to be a safe-haven for illegal immigrants, they can handle the work in assimilating them.


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