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Jul 25 2010
By: DEMOLITION_D Treasure Hunter 7534 posts
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Seems like Kojima's just lost all respect for Ocelot after MGS3 *spoilers*

67 replies 57 views Edited Jul 25, 2010

Ever since I first played through MGS1 Ocelot and Gray Fox have battled it out for my favorite MGS character. In MGS2 he was still baller as hell, and I loved the whole shoot Sergei through the fluttering duster coat trick and how he was the only one capable of piloting RAY. Made him even cooler. Then in MGS3 the gunplay done by him sealed the deal, it was just phenomenal, probably one of my favorite things about Snake Eater.

 

 

But now, after recently finishing Peace Walker (yes, that includes Chapter 5), I'm actually very disappointed in Kojima in regards to Ocelot. I mean, for the first 3 games he has been at the end of each credit roll sort of holding the fabric of the MGS series together with his mysteriousness, but now it's just like... eh.

 

 

I was so happy to finally witness Ocelot in MGS4. Then I actually played the game. Amazing game, which I would recommend to anyone with a PS3 (and without lulz), but you still can't ignore the fact that during every instance of his presence via cutscene he was acting like a different person, and actually had me fooled into still thinking that he was possessed by a different person. Which really took away from his, uh, Ocelotness I guess. Oh, not to mention the fact that the ENTIRE game I was on the edge of my seat waiting for him to pull out the Colt Single Action Army to pull off some totally badass maneuver like shooting the base of a building just at the right point to have it **bleep**ing explode or some crazy crap like that, but no. Turns out, HE DOESN'T EVEN HAVE ONE. Then at the end of the game, in the most anticlimactic insensible BS imaginable he's just like, "Oh yeah, and I was just kidding. I'm really Ocelot *finger wave* you're pretty sexy," DEATH. 

 

I download the Expansion for MGO, trippin' balls over being able to use SAA again in MGO like I did back in 2005 and what's this? A single shot .45 caliber weapon called the Thor is Ocelot's special weapon. Wow. Now it's almost as if Kojima is literally trying to aggrevate anyone who even remotely thought Revolver Ocelot was cool in the past.

 

 

And now after Peace Walker, I come to find that he's not even here. You think considering the pivotal role he played in forming the Patriots he might be mentioned at the very least. But no, nothing. At least not yet, I guess there could be some Chapter 6: Outer Buttsex that I don't know about, but from the looks of it, Ocelot is nowhere to be found.

 

 

 

Anyway, I guess what I'm getting at is just that I can't believe how Kojima could have successfully killed such a character. And it just now took me and my fanboyism to realize it, and honestly, it's a little irritating to say the least

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Re: Seems like Kojima's just lost all respect for Ocelot after MGS3 *spoilers*

Jul 25, 2010
Join the club. MGS3 was the game that raised Ocelot up for me and then MGS4 came around and he's not even there. Same with PW (to hell with Kaz Smiley Indifferent).

I haven't been too happy with Kojima's handling of characters lately though so having Ocelot added to the list doesn't help that position (Vamp, Raiden and now Ocelot). It's like he builds up these great characters and then finds a way to just cut the support rope for them and send them pummeling down. I've already spoken out about Vamp (total neglect of his MGS2 storyline going into MGS4) and Raiden (Gray Fox clone due to backlash from MGS2). Ocelot having all the awesome killed off in MGS4 after seeing him in MGS3 was just another blow.

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Re: Seems like Kojima's just lost all respect for Ocelot after MGS3 *spoilers*

Jul 25, 2010

Uh... Could be because he brainwashed himself into believing he was Liquid Snake. And as I recall, Liquid never had any revolvers or anything like that. Did you guys just forget that part of the game or something? He WAS a different person during MGS4. How awesome would that be "Oh yeah, I'm really Ocelot, but don't tell anyone. See, I'm trying to trick The Patriots, and if they find out I'm not really Liquid, everything goes to **bleep**. But hey, fanservice, man! Fanservice! *SAA ownage*" Not very awesome.

 

And there is a sequel to Peace Walker on the way. Chances are Ocelot will be involved. He'd have to be.

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Re: Seems like Kojima's just lost all respect for Ocelot after MGS3 *spoilers*

Jul 25, 2010

Mentioning Peace Walker, not only was Ocelot not in the game, but there were no other familiar characters either. Eva was missing, except for a few unnecessary debriefing tapes. Frank Jaegar (aka. Grey Fox), who was the highest ranked soldier in Foxhound, and who Big Boss recruited in Portable Ops, wasn't even mentioned. There was no mention of Campbell, either. In fact, Peace Walker is the first MGS game without an appearance from the "Colonel".

 

But, it's not only the support characters. As I discussed in a previous thread, I believe that Solid Snake got shafted as well. Although Snake was a clone, he aged normally up his late forties (just like a normal human), and then for no reason at all, he age starts to age accelerate and becomes "Old Snake" just five years after MGS 2. Technically speaking, clones are supposed to age-accelerate from the time of their birth, as is their "natural life-span". But, that's not the case with Snake, who, for some reason, aged normally just as any other human for most of his life. This inconsistency was never explained, but it's pretty obvious that Kojima was just looking for a quick way to get rid of the Solid Snake for good.

 

I think that Kojima's problem, is that he has way too many characters on his hands, and with such limited game-time per MGS game, he's unable to showcase everything. But, even that doesn't explain why he never even bothers to clarify things. Forgetting to give Ocelot his iconic Colt revolver, is inexcusable (thanks for pointing that out, by the way - for some reason, I didn't even notice it). The reason for why Ocelot would not carry his favorite pistol in MGS 4 (the same weapon that he called "the greatest gun ever made" in MGS 1), is beyond my understanding. In fact, I stopped trying understand anything that Kojima does anymore Man Indifferent. Kojima declared himself as "God" in MGS, so I guess he can do whatever the hell he wants...

Peace amongst men living alongside one another is not a natural state. On the contrary, the natural state of man is that of war. War manifested not only by open hostilities, but also by the open threat of hostility. Peace, therefore, is a state that must be established by law.
--Immanuel Kant
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Re: Seems like Kojima's just lost all respect for Ocelot after MGS3 *spoilers*

Jul 25, 2010

blade7117 wrote:

But, it's not only the support characters. As I discussed in a previous thread, I believe that Solid Snake got shafted as well. Although Snake was a clone, he aged normally up his late forties (just like a normal human), and then for no reason at all, he age starts to age accelerate and becomes "Old Snake" just five years after MGS 2. Technically speaking, clones are supposed to age-accelerate from the time of their birth, as is their "natural life-span". But, that's not the case with Snake, who, for some reason, aged normally just as any other human for most of his life. This inconsistency was never explained, but it's pretty obvious that Kojima was just looking for a quick way to get rid of the Solid Snake for good.


...
...
...

You know what? This entire time, I was sure the time span between MGS2 to MGS4 was a 2 year span. I've mentioned it countless times when discussing it with others but no one has ever corrected me on it and I just checked Wiki (HARHAR) and they say 5 years as well. I know last year people mentioned that Big Shell would be attacked on 'X' day jokingly like it did in the game in 2009 but I just never connected the 2009-2014 gap

EDIT: I had asked this about Solidus as well. He took part in the First Liberian Civil War which Wiki pegs at 1989-1996 and it states he did so as a 'teenager'. In 2001, he's put into the role of President. So he aged quite a bit in the span of 10 years.

You know what, where the hell am I getting the 2 year figure from for the MGS2-MGS4 gap? The Tanker to Big Shell time span, isn't it?

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Re: Seems like Kojima's just lost all respect for Ocelot after MGS3 *spoilers*

Jul 25, 2010

Crimson_Ryan wrote:

Uh... Could be because he brainwashed himself into believing he was Liquid Snake. And as I recall, Liquid never had any revolvers or anything like that. Did you guys just forget that part of the game or something? He WAS a different person during MGS4. How awesome would that be "Oh yeah, I'm really Ocelot, but don't tell anyone. See, I'm trying to trick The Patriots, and if they find out I'm not really Liquid, everything goes to **bleep**. But hey, fanservice, man! Fanservice! *SAA ownage*" Not very awesome.

 

And there is a sequel to Peace Walker on the way. Chances are Ocelot will be involved. He'd have to be.


Ocelot would eventually have to revert back to his "normal self" anyway. He was never completely gone, it's just that the Liquid personality was more dominant in his mind. It might be true that the Liquid would not have any interest in using a revolver, but that doesn't mean that "Ocelot" wouldn't have carried a revolver with him.

Peace amongst men living alongside one another is not a natural state. On the contrary, the natural state of man is that of war. War manifested not only by open hostilities, but also by the open threat of hostility. Peace, therefore, is a state that must be established by law.
--Immanuel Kant
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Re: Seems like Kojima's just lost all respect for Ocelot after MGS3 *spoilers*

Jul 25, 2010

blade7117 wrote:

Ocelot would eventually have to revert back to his "normal self" anyway. He was never completely gone, it's just that the Liquid personality was more dominant in his mind. It might be true that the Liquid would have any interest in using a revolver, but that doesn't mean that "Ocelot" wouldn't have carried a revolver with him.


Using a combination of Hypnotherapy and Nanomachines, I'm sure they were just as much there to suppress Ocelot as they were to give the illusion of Liquid. You would think certain things would 'trigger' Ocelot to come to the front like things did with Liquid when Ocelot still had his arm.

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Re: Seems like Kojima's just lost all respect for Ocelot after MGS3 *spoilers*

Jul 25, 2010

 


SlashZaku wrote:

blade7117 wrote:

Ocelot would eventually have to revert back to his "normal self" anyway. He was never completely gone, it's just that the Liquid personality was more dominant in his mind. It might be true that the Liquid would have any interest in using a revolver, but that doesn't mean that "Ocelot" wouldn't have carried a revolver with him.


Using a combination of Hypnotherapy and Nanomachines, I'm sure they were just as much there to suppress Ocelot as they were to give the illusion of Liquid. You would think certain things would 'trigger' Ocelot to come to the front like things did with Liquid when Ocelot still had his arm.

 

Indeed. The ending of the game confirms what I've said anyway. Ocelot knew that Liquid's personality would want to finish what he started with Snake in Shadow Moses, and he knew that they'd get into an epic fight of extreme awesome proportions, and slowly beat Liquid out of Ocelot's head so he can share a brief moment of mind**bleep** with Snake.

 

Also, I'm having a really hard time thinking of how Gray Fox or anyone else would be relevant in Peace Walker. Campbell was so useless it wasn't funny, Eva, she was busy being knocked up by The Patriots, and Gray Fox was with FOXHOUND, I think. Either way, it's not like Peace Walker was so important that it was a crime against humanity that a few characters weren't in the game. It literally showed the very beginning of Outer Heaven, and what caused them to become what they did. No other character was involved with the creation of Outer Heaven than the people in the game, so no one else needs to be in there. Especially Campbell. I don't think people remember that Campbell was Solid Snake's CO when he was sent to kill Big Boss. How would that work? "Oh hey Big Boss, Roy Campbell here. Look, I was there when Outer Heaven was created and I understand that THEY provoked YOU, and you aren't actually bad guys, but hey, I gotta get the bills paid, so here's your son! Enjoy the hairspray!"

 

I mean, in MGS1, Snake never stopped and started talking about any of the bosses or characters from MG1 or 2. "Oh man, how about that Holly White? Man, I totally hit that. That Dr. Madnar was pretty cool, too bad about his face though. Yeah, I'll talk to you later Colonel." In MGS2 Snake never stopped to talk about anyone from MGS1 aside from Campbell and some small talk of Liquid.

 

And Solid Snake was created with cellular degeneration set for when he got old enough, presumably in his prime, to prevent him being used by the wrong people... Like Ocelot, for instance. And Solidus aged faster because he was a direct, complete, and exact genetic copy of Big Boss. He was ze purfect klone, as they say. Which is why he was older. Also explains why they thought they were chasing Big Boss, when in fact it was Solidus. Poor guy. No legs, no skin, no eye, brain-dead and mentally retarded... Being set on fire like that. He didn't deserve to go out that way.

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Re: Seems like Kojima's just lost all respect for Ocelot after MGS3 *spoilers*

Jul 25, 2010

Crimson_Ryan wrote:

Also, I'm having a really hard time thinking of how Gray Fox or anyone else would be relevant in Peace Walker. Campbell was so useless it wasn't funny, Eva, she was busy being knocked up by The Patriots, and Gray Fox was with FOXHOUND, I think. Either way, it's not like Peace Walker was so important that it was a crime against humanity that a few characters weren't in the game. It literally showed the very beginning of Outer Heaven, and what caused them to become what they did. No other character was involved with the creation of Outer Heaven than the people in the game, so no one else needs to be in there. Especially Campbell. I don't think people remember that Campbell was Solid Snake's CO when he was sent to kill Big Boss. How would that work? "Oh hey Big Boss, Roy Campbell here. Look, I was there when Outer Heaven was created and I understand that THEY provoked YOU, and you aren't actually bad guys, but hey, I gotta get the bills paid, so here's your son! Enjoy the hairspray!"


And Solid Snake was created with cellular degeneration set for when he got old enough, presumably in his prime, to prevent him being used by the wrong people... Like Ocelot, for instance. And Solidus aged faster because he was a direct, complete, and exact genetic copy of Big Boss. He was ze purfect klone, as they say. Which is why he was older. Also explains why they thought they were chasing Big Boss, when in fact it was Solidus. Poor guy. No legs, no skin, no eye, brain-dead and mentally retarded... Being set on fire like that. He didn't deserve to go out that way.


Don't give me that crap. Kaz, was useless. Kaz was useless to the point that he let another useless character make him seem even more irrelevant every time he escaped. Not only that, but he was so irrelevant, that Kojima shoehorned his relevancy at the end of the game. THAT'S HOW USELESS KAZ WAS. Slapping Campbell in alongside him, the so called 'cool outfit' he was wearing wouldn't be enough to save him.

As for Solidus, I'd say it's less to do with being a perfect clone and more with serving a larger purpose than the other 2. He was supposed to be the image of 'Big Boss' when Big Boss defected from The Patriots and later down the line, he served as the President of the Free World, essentially a powerful, public figure in the back pocket of The Patriots. However, like his father and brothers, bringing the Patriots down was in his genes (HARDYHARHAR).

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Re: Seems like Kojima's just lost all respect for Ocelot after MGS3 *spoilers*

Jul 25, 2010

blade7117 wrote:

Crimson_Ryan wrote:

Uh... Could be because he brainwashed himself into believing he was Liquid Snake. And as I recall, Liquid never had any revolvers or anything like that. Did you guys just forget that part of the game or something? He WAS a different person during MGS4. How awesome would that be "Oh yeah, I'm really Ocelot, but don't tell anyone. See, I'm trying to trick The Patriots, and if they find out I'm not really Liquid, everything goes to **bleep**. But hey, fanservice, man! Fanservice! *SAA ownage*" Not very awesome.

 

And there is a sequel to Peace Walker on the way. Chances are Ocelot will be involved. He'd have to be.


Ocelot would eventually have to revert back to his "normal self" anyway. He was never completely gone, it's just that the Liquid personality was more dominant in his mind. It might be true that the Liquid would not have any interest in using a revolver, but that doesn't mean that "Ocelot" wouldn't have carried a revolver with him.


Liquid's personality was never dominate in his mind and he never really had liquids hand..... That was all things he made up for the sake of the mission.

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