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Last Guardian
Registered: 12/03/2004
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Re: The controls can't be "fixed"!

Feb 9, 2011

Rorek_IronBlood wrote:

Pffft.. Another thread complaining about the controls. Who could have ever seen this coming.

Oh, and by the way. Here is the question we are all dying to know. If it's not Call of Duty; then what game are all of you using as a basis for your whining, crying, nitpicking, and general b^tching? Please. Do explain. The sad fact of the matter is that most if not all of you are using Call of Duty as the basis for your negativity. So, of course it will be said. I doubt anyone here is going to say Counter Strike, Halo, Unreal Tournament, or games like Wolfenstein, and even Quake are being used for these craptastic threads. Face facts people. The only real reason the few people are complaining is because, they are use to the player friendly, arcade style of Call of Duty. Simple as that. It's a pick-up, and play game for everyone. You don't like the learning curve, or adjusting so, it's all "wrong", or "broken" to you.

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While this does hold some truth, it is not the entire answer.  People compare to COD since that is the most popular and most played FPS game as of recently.  When somebody says 'COD controls' everybody knows what that means.  So it became the default comparison.  But just because it is used as a comparison does not disqualify peoples claims on the controls.

The real truth is that COD controls are nothing new.  FPS games have had those controls since Doom and Duke Nukem days, if not before that as well.  And I can honestly say out of the potential thousands of FPS shooter games I have played in my life, KZ2, KZ3 and Farcry 2 are the ONLY ones that just felt wrong.  Up until I played Farcry 2 (then shortly after, KZ2) I had no idea a FPS game could have such awkward and annoying controls.  

The controls are truly different, I will hand you that.  But different does not mean good, and just because some people adapt  better than others doesn't mean we all can or should.  After all, in the history of FPS games I can only think of three that have these 'different' controls.  You should at least try to understand why the controls in this game are such a big deal to so many people, because 99.9999998% of all the FPS games in the history of our world have been more like COD rather than KZ2/3.  Think of it like some brand of soda or cereal you really like and have enjoyed for dozens of years. then one day they decide to change the formula into a flavor you do not like, wouldn't you be upset too?

There is good reason why every FPS game out there has controls like COD, because those controls are universally accepted among anybody that has ever played a FPS game.  And they also happen to be the closest resemblance of human reaction and real life movements believe it or not. 

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Fender Bender
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Re: The controls can't be "fixed"!

Feb 9, 2011

leukoplast wrote:

Rorek_IronBlood wrote:

Pffft.. Another thread complaining about the controls. Who could have ever seen this coming.

Oh, and by the way. Here is the question we are all dying to know. If it's not Call of Duty; then what game are all of you using as a basis for your whining, crying, nitpicking, and general b^tching? Please. Do explain. The sad fact of the matter is that most if not all of you are using Call of Duty as the basis for your negativity. So, of course it will be said. I doubt anyone here is going to say Counter Strike, Halo, Unreal Tournament, or games like Wolfenstein, and even Quake are being used for these craptastic threads. Face facts people. The only real reason the few people are complaining is because, they are use to the player friendly, arcade style of Call of Duty. Simple as that. It's a pick-up, and play game for everyone. You don't like the learning curve, or adjusting so, it's all "wrong", or "broken" to you.

Photobucket

While this does hold some truth, it is not the entire answer.  People compare to COD since that is the most popular and most played FPS game as of recently.  When somebody says 'COD controls' everybody knows what that means.  So it became the default comparison.  But just because it is used as a comparison does not disqualify peoples claims on the controls.

The real truth is that COD controls are nothing new.  FPS games have had those controls since Doom and Duke Nukem days, if not before that as well.  And I can honestly say out of the potential thousands of FPS shooter games I have played in my life, KZ2, KZ3 and Farcry 2 are the ONLY ones that just felt wrong.  Up until I played Farcry 2 (then shortly after, KZ2) I had no idea a FPS game could have such awkward and annoying controls.  

The controls are truly different, I will hand you that.  But different does not mean good, and just because some people adapt  better than others doesn't mean we all can or should.  After all, in the history of FPS games I can only think of three that have these 'different' controls.  You should at least try to understand why the controls in this game are such a big deal to so many people, because 99.9999998% of all the FPS games in the history of our world have been more like COD rather than KZ2/3.  Think of it like some brand of soda or cereal you really like and have enjoyed for dozens of years. then one day they decide to change the formula into a flavor you do not like, wouldn't you be upset too?

There is good reason why every FPS game out there has controls like COD, because those controls are universally accepted among anybody that has ever played a FPS game.  And they also happen to be the closest resemblance of human reaction and real life movements believe it or not. 


Okay. I'll say that first off. Good post, and you make some good points. I enjoyed the cereal, soda brand terminology. I don't think however, that FPS games like Call of Duty, or past games using much simpler coding, or movements are "human" like. I think they are accepted because, as you said it's like soda, or cereal. I just think people should try harder, or be more accepting of the changes brought by the KILLZONE series, and others like it as they emerge. It's not a bad thing I agree to have games like Halo, or Call of Duty. Very easy, and fluid. Unweighted. They offer just as much fun, and gameplay as games like KILLZONE. It's the crying I cannot tolerate any longer. Calling it broken, or wrong because, it's trying to be different then say coke. It's like pepsi, and coke. You cannot say either is broken can you? Wrong?

Again. You make valid points, but sometimes. Taking the time to try it out isn't bad either. I honestly am not going to be bothered if they go, ahead and change the controls just to apease everyone who is unwilling to adapt to the learning curve that comes from the weighted controls. I don't. Like I said. It's the complaining I think most if not all of us cannot stand. That, and calling things broken when they are just different for some. That gets old.

You said you did not enjoy FarCry2 yourself. However, it was a great game, and series that a lot enjoyed for a long time, and still do. Does that make it a bad game?

I think people are honestly complaining just to have the game catered to them. If not at the very least "most" are.

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Last Guardian
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Re: The controls can't be "fixed"!

Feb 9, 2011

Rorek_IronBlood wrote:


Okay. I'll say that first off. Good post, and you make some good points. I enjoyed the cereal, soda brand terminology. I don't think however, that FPS games like Call of Duty, or past games using much simpler coding, or movements are "human" like. I think they are accepted because, as you said it's like soda, or cereal. I just think people should try harder, or be more accepting of the changes brought by the KILLZONE series, and others like it as they emerge. It's not a bad thing I agree to have games like Halo, or Call of Duty. Very easy, and fluid. Unweighted. They offer just as much fun, and gameplay as games like KILLZONE. It's the crying I cannot tolerate any longer. Calling it broken, or wrong because, it's trying to be different then say coke. It's like pepsi, and coke. You cannot say either is broken can you? Wrong?

Again. You make valid points, but sometimes. Taking the time to try it out isn't bad either. I honestly am not going to be bothered if they go, ahead and change the controls just to apease everyone who is unwilling to adapt to the learning curve that comes from the weighted controls. I don't. Like I said. It's the complaining I think most if not all of us cannot stand. That, and calling things broken when they are just different for some. That gets old.

You said you did not enjoy FarCry2 yourself. However, it was a great game, and series that a lot enjoyed for a long time, and still do. Does that make it a bad game?

I think people are honestly complaining just to have the game catered to them. If not at the very least "most" are.

Photobucket

I will agree that calling it wrong or broken is more than likely a persons way of saying "I don't like it, therefore it's broken".   As you have pointed out, it's just an opinion.  Because some people like it, and others don't.  If the controls were truly 'broken' then by definition they wouldn't work at all.  And obviously that is not the case. 

But then again it might not be that cut and dry.  As probably very few of us actually know the inner coding behind the controls, and broken may not simply be the definition of not working entirely, but rather not working properly.  And this is when the comparisons to most other FPS control settings come into play.

We all know the common description fo the KZ controls is 'weighted', however when it comes to realism, the controls are not really weighted.  Weight for characters in KZ3 just means slower, what is present is an acceleration curve that starts slow then speeds way up as you get past a certain point in the analog stick movement, often causing over-corrections.  If I am holding something heavy and want to turn 90 degrees to my left, I don't start slow then speed way up missing the point at which I wanted to arrive.  My brain knows where i want to go and I can turn precisely in that direction without variation.   The issue with the whole weight aspect in the kZ series is misconstrued.  They might be trying to simulate weight, but they are actually simulating something else entirely.   This is what people feel when they play, and since it is unnatural to what they would react/feel in real life, it causes the brain to disconnect from the game.   The thing about the COD controls is that they can react and respond exactly to what your brain wants, which was my reference point for those controls being more realistic to natural human movement.

I would personally think the less restrictions you place on a games controls, the more real it will feel.  Because IRL we can move our bodies and limbs in all kinds of directions and speeds.  We can go fast, slow, fast then slow, slow then fast etc etc.  And we essentially have no restrictions aside from our own physical limitations and brain response time. No game controller could ever properly simulate what we can do IRL.  Now when you have a game like KZ3, you would think Ok my character is carrying heavy gear therefore he should be weighted in his movements.  However one thing people seem to miss is that these aren't some 90lb rookies who have never held a gun or gear in their life, these are trained soldiers who are built to physically endure practically anything you can throw at them, including carrying a 50 lb rifle across long distances and beign able to shoot it when the need arises.   I have personally held and shot several different types of weapons in my life, and I can tell you when I want to aim or look in one direction, I can do it fast and precisely without any delay or sway, I can 'snap' it in any direction I want.  The way KZ3 characters react in this game was as if they are incapable of holding a weapon and don't have the muscle, energy or proper balance to turn and aim. This to me is not true to life, and I can feel this when my brain wants my character to turn or aim in one direction, but doesn't do exactly what I wanted. 

But as you pointed out, realism aside, this game just feels different.  Depending on what the developers really want the feel to be is the only way people can determine if it's wrong or not.  If that feel was simply the feeling of weight, then I would personally say it is wrong.  Because as I described above, this is not a true simulation of weight (it might be if the gun was 500lbs and past the point of the soldiers physical strength).  But if all the devs wanted was it to be different than the other games, then calling it broken or wrong would simply be a opinion.

The whole control debate can go on for ages, and both sides of the argument have very valid points.  Just imagine how much of the whining and crying over the controls being good or bad would be eliminated if GG simply gave us the option to choose how our controls react.  If they gave us the option to tweak the settings to our liking, adjusting deadzones, accelerations, and all that fun stuff.  100% of everybody would be happy and the control issue would disappear 100%.  I can tolerate the controls how they are now, although I would enjoy the game so much more if I had the option to mold the controls into what I wanted.  And isn't that the point of a game, to have fun and enjoy yourself? 

Since when has playing a video game been about overcoming real-life physical obstacles?  I play games to mess around in a virtual world, and the less I have to focus on how to aim properly the more fun I will have.  And when I play KZ3 I often get disconnected from the game because of the controls.   It's like if a car company introduced a manual transmission car with a clutch on the right side, brake on the left and gas in the middle.  It would mess a lot of people up cause every other car in the world operates differently.  This is no different than the KZ games having controls that vary from every other game out there. 

Also I never said I did not enjoy Farcry 2, it was a neat game.  But the controls were horrendous for me (and many others too from what I remember).  FC2 was the very first FPS game where I did not feel confident that I could aim properly, and it made a potentially great game into a slightly annoying one.  It got to the point where I tried to avoid having to shoot anyone because it felt so awkward and annoying.  Avoiding shooting people on a FPS game is not good, especially seeing as a FPS game is all about shooting people.  As for it being a bad game, well the controls made it 'not as fun' for me, which some people may associate with bad.   To put it simply, the game could have been a lot more fun for me if it wasn't for the controls. 

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Sackboy
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Re: The controls can't be "fixed"!

Feb 9, 2011

leukoplast wrote:

Rorek_IronBlood wrote:


Okay. I'll say that first off. Good post, and you make some good points. I enjoyed the cereal, soda brand terminology. I don't think however, that FPS games like Call of Duty, or past games using much simpler coding, or movements are "human" like. I think they are accepted because, as you said it's like soda, or cereal. I just think people should try harder, or be more accepting of the changes brought by the KILLZONE series, and others like it as they emerge. It's not a bad thing I agree to have games like Halo, or Call of Duty. Very easy, and fluid. Unweighted. They offer just as much fun, and gameplay as games like KILLZONE. It's the crying I cannot tolerate any longer. Calling it broken, or wrong because, it's trying to be different then say coke. It's like pepsi, and coke. You cannot say either is broken can you? Wrong?

Again. You make valid points, but sometimes. Taking the time to try it out isn't bad either. I honestly am not going to be bothered if they go, ahead and change the controls just to apease everyone who is unwilling to adapt to the learning curve that comes from the weighted controls. I don't. Like I said. It's the complaining I think most if not all of us cannot stand. That, and calling things broken when they are just different for some. That gets old.

You said you did not enjoy FarCry2 yourself. However, it was a great game, and series that a lot enjoyed for a long time, and still do. Does that make it a bad game?

I think people are honestly complaining just to have the game catered to them. If not at the very least "most" are.

Photobucket

I will agree that calling it wrong or broken is more than likely a persons way of saying "I don't like it, therefore it's broken".   As you have pointed out, it's just an opinion.  Because some people like it, and others don't.  If the controls were truly 'broken' then by definition they wouldn't work at all.  And obviously that is not the case. 

But then again it might not be that cut and dry.  As probably very few of us actually know the inner coding behind the controls, and broken may not simply be the definition of not working entirely, but rather not working properly.  And this is when the comparisons to most other FPS control settings come into play.

We all know the common description fo the KZ controls is 'weighted', however when it comes to realism, the controls are not really weighted.  Weight for characters in KZ3 just means slower, what is present is an acceleration curve that starts slow then speeds way up as you get past a certain point in the analog stick movement, often causing over-corrections.  If I am holding something heavy and want to turn 90 degrees to my left, I don't start slow then speed way up missing the point at which I wanted to arrive.  My brain knows where i want to go and I can turn precisely in that direction without variation.   The issue with the whole weight aspect in the kZ series is misconstrued.  They might be trying to simulate weight, but they are actually simulating something else entirely.   This is what people feel when they play, and since it is unnatural to what they would react/feel in real life, it causes the brain to disconnect from the game.   The thing about the COD controls is that they can react and respond exactly to what your brain wants, which was my reference point for those controls being more realistic to natural human movement.

I would personally think the less restrictions you place on a games controls, the more real it will feel.  Because IRL we can move our bodies and limbs in all kinds of directions and speeds.  We can go fast, slow, fast then slow, slow then fast etc etc.  And we essentially have no restrictions aside from our own physical limitations and brain response time. No game controller could ever properly simulate what we can do IRL.  Now when you have a game like KZ3, you would think Ok my character is carrying heavy gear therefore he should be weighted in his movements.  However one thing people seem to miss is that these aren't some 90lb rookies who have never held a gun or gear in their life, these are trained soldiers who are built to physically endure practically anything you can throw at them, including carrying a 50 lb rifle across long distances and beign able to shoot it when the need arises.   I have personally held and shot several different types of weapons in my life, and I can tell you when I want to aim or look in one direction, I can do it fast and precisely without any delay or sway, I can 'snap' it in any direction I want.  The way KZ3 characters react in this game was as if they are incapable of holding a weapon and don't have the muscle, energy or proper balance to turn and aim. This to me is not true to life, and I can feel this when my brain wants my character to turn or aim in one direction, but doesn't do exactly what I wanted. 

But as you pointed out, realism aside, this game just feels different.  Depending on what the developers really want the feel to be is the only way people can determine if it's wrong or not.  If that feel was simply the feeling of weight, then I would personally say it is wrong.  Because as I described above, this is not a true simulation of weight (it might be if the gun was 500lbs and past the point of the soldiers physical strength).  But if all the devs wanted was it to be different than the other games, then calling it broken or wrong would simply be a opinion.

The whole control debate can go on for ages, and both sides of the argument have very valid points.  Just imagine how much of the whining and crying over the controls being good or bad would be eliminated if GG simply gave us the option to choose how our controls react.  If they gave us the option to tweak the settings to our liking, adjusting deadzones, accelerations, and all that fun stuff.  100% of everybody would be happy and the control issue would disappear 100%.  I can tolerate the controls how they are now, although I would enjoy the game so much more if I had the option to mold the controls into what I wanted.  And isn't that the point of a game, to have fun and enjoy yourself? 

Since when has playing a video game been about overcoming real-life physical obstacles?  I play games to mess around in a virtual world, and the less I have to focus on how to aim properly the more fun I will have.  And when I play KZ3 I often get disconnected from the game because of the controls.   It's like if a car company introduced a manual transmission car with a clutch on the right side, brake on the left and gas in the middle.  It would mess a lot of people up cause every other car in the world operates differently.  This is no different than the KZ games having controls that vary from every other game out there. 

Also I never said I did not enjoy Farcry 2, it was a neat game.  But the controls were horrendous for me (and many others too from what I remember).  FC2 was the very first FPS game where I did not feel confident that I could aim properly, and it made a potentially great game into a slightly annoying one.  It got to the point where I tried to avoid having to shoot anyone because it felt so awkward and annoying.  Avoiding shooting people on a FPS game is not good, especially seeing as a FPS game is all about shooting people.  As for it being a bad game, well the controls made it 'not as fun' for me, which some people may associate with bad.   To put it simply, the game could have been a lot more fun for me if it wasn't for the controls. 

How can you even bothered writing that much lol .. good on you though

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: The controls can't be "fixed"!

Feb 9, 2011

I personally liked the killzone 2 controls I was never good at twitch-aiming shooters where you constantly have to look down your scoped. Killzone 3 is like a hybrid of COD and Killzone 2. It just takes some getting used to. I whine and complain all day but I'm still going to buy the game and put in a lot of time online just like in KZ2. So at the end of the day we are all Killzone fans and that's all that matters

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: The controls can't be "fixed"!

Feb 9, 2011

I CAN* whine...

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I Only Post Everything
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Re: The controls can't be "fixed"!

Feb 9, 2011

Love the controls. Finally something that feels a little more "in-depth" than all the 9-5 BS from CoD and such. The controls from CoD are just mainstream, everybody got used to those, and that's fine, don't get me wrong. But in KZ3 I just get the feeling of more "being in there".

Hard to explain, but I think the controls are OK.

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Sackboy
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Re: The controls can't be "fixed"!

Feb 9, 2011

XxKIDD-DEATHxX wrote:

Oh, and I forgot to mention that the best way to understand what aquastorm and myself are displeased with is to play any other FPS, for a few hours straight then just start playing KZ. you'll feel the difference. in my opinion F.E.A.R 2 had better controls than KZ2 or KZ3, and that games multiplayer was horrible.

LOL That's the point, the controls should feel different because it's a different game. If you don't like them or can't get used to them, then you can just play all the FPS games that feel the same to you. I switch from COD, BFBC2, MOH, KZ, Halo, ARMA, and CSS and I do just fine in all of them. I don't want every shooter to feel the same.  Thats the reason we have an Open market, because people want choices.

If you want to play with me in Killzone 3 or any other FPS my PSN is: MrShootFirst67

For Sports and all other genre Games my PSN: is TerribleTe67

XBL: MrShootFirst67
Steam: Trigga67
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Splicer
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Re: The controls can't be "fixed"!

Feb 9, 2011

The controls suck in this game fanboys will refuse to admit that.

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: The controls can't be "fixed"!

Feb 9, 2011

All GG does is listening to some hundreds Radec noobs instead making the game better for millions. Atleast give us the option to turn that shitty weight and sluggisch character movement OFF, the multiplayer will be dead in weeks just like Kz2.

I will get this game for the SP and check if the full version supports more controller configurations, if not... i will sell this game on marketplace as soon as possible to get my hard earned money back.

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