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Lombax Warrior
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Re: Killzone 3 Ending / KZ4**Spoliers**!

Jul 7, 2011

I'm hoping that it's not just another Helghast invade Vekta game. Hopefully, it will be more original.

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: Killzone 3 Ending / KZ4**Spoliers**!

Jul 7, 2011

Also, I don't understand the idea that the Visari they killed was a double, and the real one was in the leech pod. I understand the whole thing with the eye color. But if he was a double, than why did the Helghast retaliate? Someone please explain.

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Survivor
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Re: Killzone 3 Ending / KZ4**Spoliers**!

Jul 8, 2011

racingfan312 wrote:

Also, I don't understand the idea that the Visari they killed was a double, and the real one was in the leech pod. I understand the whole thing with the eye color. But if he was a double, than why did the Helghast retaliate? Someone please explain.

He wanted to use his death as motivation for the helghast people to retaliate. It would give him an excuse to escalate the war, and people would be mad enough to where they wouldn't question if what they were doing was the right thing.

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First Son
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Re: Killzone 3 Ending / KZ4**Spoliers**!

Apr 9, 2012

are u refering to the council member that supported Stahl?

Also....I know its been more than a year since this game (Kz3) came out,but why aren't ppl considering that its Nerville in the pod?

Im pretty sure Adams or someone from Kz1 died pleading to be spared in return for infomation

(the possiblilty of Visari's son hiding in the chain of comand as a soldier in the ISA).In begining of KZ1 all "Helghast Rebels" ppl how didn't want to go to war,and didn't support Visari where Brutally Murdered.

I think Nerville comes and goes in Kz2 on the ISA Intruders as he pleases, he isn't suprised and doesn't care that Templar is killed in KZ2.He told Sev and Rico to help ground troops fight off a Helghast assault right before Radec steals the nuke and kills Templar.

He also seems to stall for time at every moment in Kz3. I'm pretty sure he didnt board a Helghast Orbital Capable Strike Fighter at the end of Kz3, because they are only two at strike fighters at the end(if Nerville had boarded one they would be three strike fighters,since they seat 2ppl).The only ppl in the Strike Fighters where Sev,Rico,"Jammer", and Hooper.

In the theory that Radec and Stahl killed the soldier for knowing too much,and the bomb moved to a Attack Cruiser instead of a Transport Crusier, the bomb would have to pass thru the Helghast Spaceport first .

And the last thing to get hit by the blast was the spaceport, maybe the ISA VTOL was still there.

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Fender Bender
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Re: Killzone 3 Ending / KZ4**Spoliers**!

Apr 10, 2012

I personally didn't like the ending to KZ3, it was pretty bad. I was expecting more from the story especially the part where we get to dress up as the helghast. I was expecting we would go further into helghan society like get to see how the civilian population lived on the planet but all we got was just a factory in the mountains. Yes, I agreed the plot holes didn't help the game but I just felt the game could of been better. KZ4 has to improve on all that KZ3 did wrong with the story. 



"I'm not a failure because I didn't win, I'm a failure because I didn't try." - Kev

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: Killzone 3 Ending / KZ4**Spoliers**!

May 31, 2012

Ok, so I am attempting to address all these issues people have with Visari using a decoy..

This post has heavy spoilers and is pretty long...Just warning yall.

LETS BEGIN!

Why I still think that Visari is alive and why him using a political decoy makes sense.

If I was outling a plot for Killzone, I would have Visari using body doubles considering:

  • Many dictators/rulers used body doubles throughout history. Saddam Hussein and Uday Hussein, Hitler, Stalin, Idi Amin, etc. And since the developers at GG are drawing inspiration from the totalitarian reigimes of Nazi Germany, the USSR under Stalin, and North Korea as well as their charismatic, egocentric and oppressive leaders, keeping in line with the source material, it would only seem natural that Visari would keep decoys)

  • Its a sci-fi plot..and I'm surprised cloning technology hasn't been mentioned yet.

Issue #1

Someone mentioned that all the Council Members/Military Leaders would have known that Visari's double was killed, so this must prove that the real Visari died!

How would they know? (why would they need to know?) Only the people instrumental in a plan would know the identity of a decoy. Throughout history, many political decoys performed their duties seamlessly while fooling their aides and advisors as well as the general public and only an handful of people such as doctors, and key bodyguards only knew the secret. (If all the bodyguards and advisors knew, then it would defeat the purpose. the fewer people who know, the better)

But to address the issue. lets look @ the intro, Visari's decoy (I'll Call him Visari 2.0)  walks into the chamber and fools everyone (maybe even his daughter...or maybe not.)  Visari 2.0 then gives the speech and then he is told "Sir the ISA are here we have to move" Visari 2.0 could answer "EVACUATE!?!? In our MOMENT OF TRIUMPH!?! I THINK YOU OVERESIMATE THEIR CHANCES!!!...or something to that effect. The council could be moved to tears and his generals inspired to fight even more...but its still a loosing battle and the Generals don't know that Visari 2.0 is a decoy.

Issue #2

Why is the guard shot when Radec and Stahl are watching the aircraft leave the landing pad?

Radec and Stahl could just be shooting the guard because the Nuke is going to the city.to be detonated.Or Stahl could really know that Visari is alive...because he could have used his technology to produce the double. Or he could have entrusted Radec and Stahl with the knowledge of his ultimate plan.and left in the shuttle which was one of the reasons why Radec killed himself at the end.  Radec could have been the chosen successor but was caught off guard by Sev and Rico's attack and or wanted to kill them before he left. (they where just two soldiers and he under estimated them)

Issue #3

The question of "Why would Stahl and Orlock fight for an fake crown?" came up so I will try to address that as well.

I personally think that ONLY Stahl and Radec knew that the original Visari was leaving and that Visari 2.0 would stay. Orlock was out of the loop (a loyal soldier and tough as an ox, but not really leadership material and still a bit of a grunt)

If Stahl knows that Visari is alive, then during the events of Killzone 3, he could be attempting to win the favor of the returning Visari by effectively repelling the ISA executing prisoners and then attacking Earth (attacking Earth was poor plot point IMO.) Anyways, Stahl makes for a poor Emperor..and It seems that the character knows this. Stahl is a the head of a corporation and he probably wants to make sure that Stahl arms is the only arms manufacturer that supplies weapons to the galaxy. He knows that Visari is alive and only tolerates Stahl because ot his corporation's advanced weapons but doesn't really like him, so for Stahl to ensure that the real Visari doesn't get rid of him and to improve his status, he sets his plan in motion at an opportune time by making sure a small group of ISA stays alive, buying a Council Member, then he "proves" to the council that he can rid Helghan of the ISA, Humiliate the ISA/satiate the revenge bloodlust of the Helghast with a public excecution, and then ends it by successfully attack Earth. So that when the Visari regieme returns, Stahl literally has insurance to do and ask for whatever he wants! If he wants to push for legislation that would force his competitors out of business...who would stop him? More funding for Stahl arms R&D? why not? (Stahl can just pocket the money and no one would care because he would have ben the savior of Helghan!)

Stahl would have become the principal supplier of Helghan, all while not having to wear the crown. Many times its better to be at the right had of the king than in his path...or in his place.

And he would have gotten away with it...if it weren't for those pesky ISA troopers.

I would have both Stahl and Visari live, (but the plot of Killzone 3 was so....strange especially then ending) 

Issue #4

Some of us are saying that Visari kept a body double on Helghan so that his death would inspire the Helghast to fight and repel the invasion.

I don't believe that this was Visari's master plan.  I don't think A leader using his own death to inspire the people to fight is a good plot device.(I think its rather overused and a bit lazy to be honest, but that's just my opinion.)  I think Visari left a decoy so that he could simply avoid capture or death while gaining the upper hand on the Vetkan Govt. If the ISA got the wrong Visari, then their whole operation would have been a failure. and Visari would have won that battle.

The ISA could not occupy all of Helghan, they needed UCA reinforcements for that (remember the UCA bailed out the ISA Before), so The ISA opted for a "surgical" strike to remove Vsari and recover the Nuke leaving them in a more favorable position to force Helghan to submit to their terms and surrender.  

The ISA didn't get the nuke (it was used on their own forces) and they didn't get Visari, so they lost the battle (Visari had to know why the ISA was coming and he had ample time to prepare for their counter attack while devising some plan to ensure the survival of his Empire and a way to come out on top)

It was a sure thing that given a good amount of time, the ISA would break the Helghan Defense Net

(One thing I learned is that when planning defenses always plan for the worst and always have fallback positions when the enemy takes your bait or overruns one of your defense lines. Their overconfidence and false sense of victory can lead to their downfall)

So what does all this mean?

It just makes sense strategically to have the ISA make their move to Initially expend their resources and expose their hand, so that the Helghast can use their remaining forces to counter attack (that's what happened at the end of KZ2) so how do you do that? By making it seem like they are getting what they want (you may lose some "good" people in the process (Radec/Orlock), but it makes the enemy actually believe that you are at the end of the line fighting tooth and nail to survive) Plus you inflict heavy losses on your enemy (Nuking Phyrrus, while denying them the Nuke they came for) and you hurt them also by conducting a counterattack when they are tired and confused/OR relaxed into thinking that the fighting is over.

Visari's Decoy had to get captured, killed or commit suicide for this to work and the chances of the real Visari surviving where pretty slim if he stayed so the odds or Visari's plan succeeding are pretty good. (it would have been better if Stahl didn't go haywire)

PLUS!!!

The invasion of Helghan was illegal and against the wishes of the UCN and UCA and when the ISA killed his double, Visari's gov't could persuade the UCA/UCN to remain Neutral, and or persuade the other colonial organizations to back the Helghan empire against the ISA who feel it is their right to do whatever they want and go an a revenge Inspired Mission.

But what woudn't make sense would be for Visari to stay in his palace and hope that the Helghans would be inspired by his presence and fight to the death and miraculously repel this invading force which was getting closer and closer to his doorstep. Why would he stay?

He had a way out, to live and fight another day. He outsmarted his enemies. (at least thats what I would have come up with)

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