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Uncharted Territory
Registered: 09/23/2008
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Re: Killzone 2 > Killzone 3. Guerrilla Has Ruined Killzone.

Nov 21, 2010

 


fleinn wrote:
I was talking about the snap-on aim.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7hllYWpgD8

And yes, I can say with absolute certainty that no one has ever been helped by the guiding crosshair in KZ2. Why? Because if you can aim slowly, which is when it triggers, it puts your aim off. If you snap and twitch around, it triggers unevenly and you miss.

So conclusion: the auto-aim doesn't help anyone.

The snap-on aim specifically ^ see the clip. That's how it was stuck for a while. That only helped cheaters.

Same when they stopped kicking people from rooms if they were lagging too much - that too only helped cheaters.

But that's how it is on consoles, I guess. "Be happy with what you get", and then: "continue to be happy when we ruin a solution that actually worked - because we IMAGINE that the majority wants it".

As usual: the problem is that a lot of the most bombastic feedback (that is much more categorical than mine) insists that there is a silent majority in owning consoles that have a number of requirements:
1. the game should play by itself, because that is fun.
2. the story should be brain-dead.
3. nothing must be out of the ordinary.
4. or so help you god.

And no amount of feedback - like we had on KZ2, while the game still had way over 100.000 people playing regularly - will stop that idea from being the common view.

These changes are done, and the audience shifts, obviously - but it is also smaller than the "only four people" audience that liked the original game. We're talking about a game here that reviewed in an average of about 95%. It's crazy for a ps3 exclusive to get that high - it almost never happens. But the "majority changes" were done, and the game dropped on the amount of online players, even when the game went platinum.

Just get that - the changes that were made to the game didn't - as advertised - increase the online population. Instead they reduced it, even as the game's sales picked up.

But it doesn't matter. Because the "common opinion" is that console-folks want a stupid, easy, simplistic game that looks like COD. And even if the changes that actually are there makes the game more hardcore, broken, and arcade - it doesn't matter: because it's really only the point that something is said that makes the majority opinion true.

So here's what actually happened. KZ2 had a strangely intuitive system that leveled the playing field between gaming veterans and newbies. That was a brilliant thing, because it meant the game was more accessible. Marketing should be ecstatic.

Then, for whatever moronic reason, someone decided that the controls in KZ2 were too difficult for their kill-streaks and strafing sprees - and they were changed.

Result - the game became hardcore, and a tiny, tiny amount of people were left. Example: I've played way too many games. I used to play Unreal tournament - and was ridiculously good. And the fact that I disliked the controls were actually used by certain people to point out that the game now appealed to "casual gamers". Nothing like that happened - but that doesn't matter, because certain people KNEW what casual gamers wanted.

And so we got arcade twitch-controls and meta-gaming trickery that could be used to pawn noobs.

I.e, before the patching, you would be extremely skilled to go something like 1.4 on the K/D ratio. After the patches, the ones on the top of the leaderboard broke 4 and 5 easily.

Now, does that encourage new players to play the game? When there are tricks you can use in the game that there's no way to beat?

Of course not. Any serious developer knows instantly that something like that ruins the game forever. But not GG. Oh, no. Because SOMEONE has gotten it into their heads that they KNOW what the console-crowd wants.

Namely: "anything we say they want". The quality, or how good the actual solution is - that just doesn't come into it.

And why should it? Obviously, "the majority opinion" doesn't change, so there you go. So what if just a few diehard hardcore fans are pissed off, right, as long as the "internet majority" has their way?

lol. I mean, seriously - that's the only place more than two people have ever agreed on that the controls in KZ2 were hardcore - on the official Killzone forum, by someone posting with several different accounts. One of them were a bit careless, passing on tips to people who agreed with him about how to create duplicate accounts, and then coming back to spam the boards. These were the people who predicted GG and the Killzone franchise would end unless the controls were fixed, or the spawn-grenades were fixed, etc.

But that's no problem - because a certain bunch of people got to hear exactly what they wanted. And perhaps the most intuitive fps made was made into crap.

Anyway. So that's been evolved into KZ3. And we'll see, again, if that on it's own helps sell the title, and populate the online. When solutions are copied from other games, and put into some other design without much thought.

Now - obviously some people here believe that anything will sell anyway. That no matter how bad the game is, it will sell, because it's Killzone. And because it's not Halo, it won't have high first day sales, so what does it matter anyway, right?

The other view is that a solid quality title is necessary to produce to promote the console - and that the life time sales are more important for a company that doesn't belive in spending a Hollywood movie budget on advertisment alone.

But with Killzone 3, neither will happen. Just like Killzone 2, the lasting appeal will be horrible, thanks to the changes and solutions that have been picked. And the title still does not have a Hollywood blockbuster movie budget for advertisement - so it won't have first day sales either.

But whatever. Obviously other people, who can find no wrong with any game that's currently being promoted, know best. Just like they did with MAG, and just like they did with Killzone 2.

Alternative opinions might suggest that two very, very good games were ruined, and the sales reduced to a laughable pittance. But that doesn't matter, because certain people knows what the majority want.

And that is all that matters. Being convincingly arrogant, and declaring that other people want crap to eat.

And clearly this works - so really, why make games at all. Why not go back to selling milk-carton designs or something. I mean, that's what Sony should do - sell some other merchandise that doesn't have to deal with ideas and artists complicated stuff like that. Clearly that's where they want to be.

In any case - just remember that I said how it would turn out, and then - like the people at the EU forum - go ahead and ban me when I come back and tell you I was right.

Hell, why wait for that - ban me now instead, and feel superior and good about silencing unwelcome feedback. Go ahead. If you do that, I'm sure the launch will be awesome.

Just think - no one on the official forum are complaining, because they're all banned. That must mean the title is perfect! And it will sell 5 million discs, right?

You do realize that its the hip-fire that is doing all the damage there right? The scoping is to maintain accuracy and despite being able to to do that it takes a lot of skill and a lot of hip-fire and croching to consistantly hit your targets. I don't think that video shows much aside from someone scoping in and out madly and hip-firing.

 

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Fender Bender
Registered: 05/15/2009
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Re: Killzone 2 > Killzone 3. Guerrilla Has Ruined Killzone.

Nov 21, 2010
...are you talking about the video with the glitch now..?

On the initial patch, the spread wasn't random like it is now.. instead the bullets hit down the sights where the gun pointed. Any inaccuracy came from turning or moving, when the gun had the "imbalance". Or, the swaying.. or "the lag".

Hip-fire was still much more inaccurate than what it is in KZ2 now, though.

So when GG punched in the snap-on aim without testing it, between the beta and the release - this allowed the exploit you see in the video - to get accurate shots that latches on to the target, when running and strafing around.

A lot of the professional COD trolls on the official forum loved it, apparently.

...any particular reason why you don't know this..?
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Hekseville Citizen
Registered: 03/10/2009
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Re: Killzone 2 > Killzone 3. Guerrilla Has Ruined Killzone.

Nov 22, 2010

 


fleinn wrote:
...are you talking about the video with the glitch now..?



...any particular reason why you don't know this..?

 

fleinn, are you sure you're old enough to play this game?

 

based on your remarks i'm wondering whether you're actually 17.

 

you constantly denigrate the people you disagree with on this board.

 

could you please be more mature about how you comment on the game?

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Uncharted Territory
Registered: 09/23/2008
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Re: Killzone 2 > Killzone 3. Guerrilla Has Ruined Killzone.

Nov 22, 2010

 


fleinn wrote:
...are you talking about the video with the glitch now..?

On the initial patch, the spread wasn't random like it is now.. instead the bullets hit down the sights where the gun pointed. Any inaccuracy came from turning or moving, when the gun had the "imbalance". Or, the swaying.. or "the lag".

Hip-fire was still much more inaccurate than what it is in KZ2 now, though.

So when GG punched in the snap-on aim without testing it, between the beta and the release - this allowed the exploit you see in the video - to get accurate shots that latches on to the target, when running and strafing around.

A lot of the professional COD trolls on the official forum loved it, apparently.

...any particular reason why you don't know this..?

He was barely moving in those videos. Honestly it looked like he killed a bunch of newer players over and over. Looking at the video, some of the zoomed in damage was done with the STA-52, but generally if your scoping that madly at players your going to get owned. I actually have done the slight scoping in, and you do far more damage bursting from the hip in Killzone 2 than doing that glitch. I don't know what your trying to prove here either, only that KZ2 has more hip-fire which is a given. I really don't like trusting youtube videos for things mostly because you have no idea the circumstances of the games. Too many variables.

 

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Fender Bender
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Re: Killzone 2 > Killzone 3. Guerrilla Has Ruined Killzone.

Nov 22, 2010
...the snap-on glitch: the snap-on could be used over and over again.. no cooldown. So if you spammed the l1 button - aim down the sights for the COD layout - you could follow the player around without using the right thumbstick. And always get minimal spread while in the scope on the first shots. The distance the snap-on worked was pretty far - as in half across the salamun market.

So - why was that function added between the beta and the release - untested?
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Uncharted Territory
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Re: Killzone 2 > Killzone 3. Guerrilla Has Ruined Killzone.

Nov 22, 2010

 


fleinn wrote:
...the snap-on glitch: the snap-on could be used over and over again.. no cooldown. So if you spammed the l1 button - aim down the sights for the COD layout - you could follow the player around without using the right thumbstick. And always get minimal spread while in the scope on the first shots. The distance the snap-on worked was pretty far - as in half across the salamun market.

So - why was that function added between the beta and the release - untested?

I've played killzone 2 for years and no one has owned me with a STA-52 from across Salamun. I think your going a little overboard with the cod comparisons honestly. If it was that game breaking it would have gotten more attention and I start to beg the question here on what exactly this thread, or your points, are about.

 

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Fender Bender
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Re: Killzone 2 > Killzone 3. Guerrilla Has Ruined Killzone.

Nov 23, 2010

 


Hungry_Xenomorph wrote:
If it was that game breaking it would have gotten more attention 

 


...you mean, like the broken controls? lol. ..I honestly don't believe you guys sometimes.

 

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Uncharted Territory
Registered: 08/06/2009
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Re: Killzone 2 > Killzone 3. Guerrilla Has Ruined Killzone.

Nov 23, 2010

KZ3 is for the wii generation, sony wanted a piece of the nintendo pie so decided to use the KZ brand to try and acheive that.

 

. KZ3 is the casual market version of KZ2. Its greater or worse depending on what side of the wii remote you sit on.

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Uncharted Territory
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Re: Killzone 2 > Killzone 3. Guerrilla Has Ruined Killzone.

Nov 24, 2010

 


fleinn wrote:

 


Hungry_Xenomorph wrote:
If it was that game breaking it would have gotten more attention 

 


...you mean, like the broken controls? lol. ..I honestly don't believe you guys sometimes.

 


I've always been fine with every incarnation of KZ2 controls. I adapted and learned.

 

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I Only Post Everything
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Re: Killzone 2 > Killzone 3. Guerrilla Has Ruined Killzone.

Nov 24, 2010

The shotgun auto-aim glitch made for some good laughs

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