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Apr 24 2009
By: SweetSupremacy Uncharted Territory 1902 posts
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Is K/D really important?

54 replies 41 views Edited Apr 24, 2009

The community seems split on this, so here I attempt to dissect it.

 

Let me premise this with this: K/D can be important but is dependent on the game and the circumstances. In Killzone 2, specifically, your K/D ratio is less important than in other premier FPS games, unless your circumstances evolve to the point that it is. I am interpreting the game with winning being held as most important, not individual K/D itself, which can also be important to some.

 

The main arguments *for* are as follows:

1) K/D is important in Killzone 2 because in order to continue to help your team and work towards winning your objective, you need to stay alive to do so. If you are traveling with a partner and you die, you cannot protect your partner's back any longer, and they will likely be overrun as well.

 

2) K/D is important in Killzone 2 if you are playing Body Count since the whole point of the game is to kill while staying alive.

 

3) K/D is important in Killzone 2 because it is the only measure of how good a player is we have since it is more personal than W/L which is influenced by other players that you don't know. You can keep yourself alive, but you cannot avoid having a bad team now and then (unless you don't play with anyone but your elite friends).

 

The main arguments *against* are as follows:

1) K/D is not important in Killzone 2 because many players are preoccupied with unlocking badges and will undoubtedly die while trying to accomplish the requirements to gain the badge.

 

2) K/D is not important in Killzone 2 because the game is very unbalanced to a new player. In other FPS games, a new player can start out on a much stronger note because they have all of the resources available to them from the get-go. In Killzone 2, players much play many games before they have unlocked enough equipment to compete with those who have unlocked everything.

 

3) K/D is not important in Killzone 2 because (and this one is going to cause a rukus) there are a good number of players - especially clan members - who boost for badges and equipment in order to stay competitive. The act of boosting will generally involve factoring in several (ok many) 1.0 K/D ratios into your total, lowering it considerably. They can't be blamed. Killzone 2 is a completely different game once you have everything unlocked. GG's design is actually quite good after you have all of the equipment and options available to you. Those who hated the game probably didn't get to the point where they unlocked everything. Consequently, those who simply dislike the unlocking, learning, portion of the game may as well boost to the point where they can play the game like it was intended - and have fun.

 

4) K/D is not important in Killzone 2 because players are preoccupied with completing an objective, with Body Count being the exception. A player may be putting winning over his own K/D by attempting to plant a bomb or deliver a propaganda speaker and rely on his team to protect him, probably getting killed - but bringing the team closer to victory.

 

******

 

I conclude that the importance of K/D in Killzone 2 is situational, being contributed by:

1) Level of play - a new player may have a K/D reflected of their skill since they will fight on a level playing field with rifles and pistols. Once they have to compete with generals for the first time, they'll find it difficult to keep up.

 

2) Type of game - Oftentimes, the objective games will require sacrifice to be successful at. A good objective player cares about the victory for the team and takes initiative. If you want to win, you'll need to protect the best interest of the team - with your life (ie; fighting several enemies to bide time for a propaganda delivery). Body Count is the obvious exception and needs a good K/D, but there's an asterick next to even that since...

 

3) Emphasis on badges - If you go out of your way to get the badges while you're playing (ie; getting shot in the back while you rapair your 5th broken ammo crate), you will see a drop in K/D compared to what it could be. This hurts new players as well.

 

4) Boosters - Boosters aren't completely in the clear, but they certainly have their place. The game is different once you have everything. It really is. If somone paid for the game and found it dull, but boosted for the badges and found it amazing once they played it like it was intended..power to them. They a significant drop in K/D for enjoyment.

 

5) Snipers - Snipers just have a better K/D than everyone else. They are technically part of the match, but sort of not. They add a necessary element to the mix, but do have higher K/D ratios than non-snipers.

 

5) Veterans - Here is the bread and butter of K/D importance. If you are a veteran, having several days of play time on your record, you had better have a very good K/D ratio to be considered 'good'. After you collect all of the equipment, you can play as you would normally. Your K/D will eventually converge to one that reflects your style of play (and whether or not you snipe a lot. Not only that, but it will actually be inflated since you're playing against players who don't have as many resources as you.

 

***

 

Once you get past the initial unlocking phase, where you're K/D is not reflective of your actual skill, and log on enough hours, your K/D will eventually become an image of what it should be. For clan recruiters, actually get the player in a room and have a try out. Don't even look at K/D unless they've been around for a while.

Message Edited by SweetSupremacy on 04-24-2009 08:31 AM
Message Edited by SweetSupremacy on 04-24-2009 08:46 AM
Message Edited by SweetSupremacy on 04-24-2009 09:08 AM
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Re: Is K/D really important?

Apr 24, 2009
Finally someone who lookks at it from both sides. *kudos
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Fender Bender
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Re: Is K/D really important?

Apr 24, 2009
If you look at the majority of the top K/D players in leaderboards, just take a look at their objective points for BC compared to everything else.  It is STUNNING how many points they have and how many hours logged with just the rifle.

I think the community is split into these 2 categories.  Now it may seem harsh but here it is:

The Believers : These are the gamers who spend about 150 hours logged in BC only rooms .  They want to believe the game KZ2 is tactical and come from games such as Socom / CS:smileyfrustrated: / Rainbow 6 / MGO etc.  They believe all games no matter the structure are supposed to be played with only rifles and a standard class.  Also factored into the The Believers are the need and yearning and thirst for a high K/D ratio.  Since the previous games played such as COD and Socom emphasis on having a good K/D to succeed every map.  If given the chance The Believers would put a no respawn timer in their games to make them feel right at home.

The Gamers : Just what it is.  Normal gamers who take the game KZ2 for what it is.  A class based game based around strategic warfare and utter chaos.  They have come to embrace Killzone 2 for being a superb class based game that offers such a diverse amount of gameplay between the classes and their abilities.

Little off topic but K/D IS important to an extent on certain modes.  But in the end the guy who went 40/41 with 60 Obj points is worth more to me then the guy who went 60-4 sniping in the back of the map with no Obj points.

~ Hardcore Alliance ~ 68-30-2 ~ 111440 Valor ~
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Uncharted Territory
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Re: Is K/D really important?

Apr 24, 2009

consolecrusader wrote:
If you look at the majority of the top K/D players in leaderboards, just take a look at their objective points for BC compared to everything else.  It is STUNNING how many points they have and how many hours logged with just the rifle.

I think the community is split into these 2 categories.  Now it may seem harsh but here it is:

The Believers : These are the gamers who spend about 150 hours logged in BC only rooms .  They want to believe the game KZ2 is tactical and come from games such as Socom / CS:smileyfrustrated: / Rainbow 6 / MGO etc.  They believe all games no matter the structure are supposed to be played with only rifles and a standard class.  Also factored into the The Believers are the need and yearning and thirst for a high K/D ratio.  Since the previous games played such as COD and Socom emphasis on having a good K/D to succeed every map.  If given the chance The Believers would put a no respawn timer in their games to make them feel right at home.

The Gamers : Just what it is.  Normal gamers who take the game KZ2 for what it is.  A class based game based around strategic warfare and utter chaos.  They have come to embrace Killzone 2 for being a superb class based game that offers such a diverse amount of gameplay between the classes and their abilities.

Little off topic but K/D IS important to an extent on certain modes.  But in the end the guy who went 40/41 with 60 Obj points is worth more to me then the guy who went 60-4 sniping in the back of the map with no Obj points.

Agreed. I just said it differently.

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Fender Bender
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Re: Is K/D really important?

Apr 24, 2009
I keep it real! Kudos on your post though.

~ Hardcore Alliance ~ 68-30-2 ~ 111440 Valor ~
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Uncharted Territory
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Re: Is K/D really important?

Apr 24, 2009

consolecrusader wrote:
If you look at the majority of the top K/D players in leaderboards, just take a look at their objective points for BC compared to everything else.  It is STUNNING how many points they have and how many hours logged with just the rifle.

I think the community is split into these 2 categories.  Now it may seem harsh but here it is:

The Believers : These are the gamers who spend about 150 hours logged in BC only rooms .  They want to believe the game KZ2 is tactical and come from games such as Socom / CS:smileyfrustrated: / Rainbow 6 / MGO etc.  They believe all games no matter the structure are supposed to be played with only rifles and a standard class.  Also factored into the The Believers are the need and yearning and thirst for a high K/D ratio.  Since the previous games played such as COD and Socom emphasis on having a good K/D to succeed every map.  If given the chance The Believers would put a no respawn timer in their games to make them feel right at home.

The Gamers : Just what it is.  Normal gamers who take the game KZ2 for what it is.  A class based game based around strategic warfare and utter chaos.  They have come to embrace Killzone 2 for being a superb class based game that offers such a diverse amount of gameplay between the classes and their abilities.

Little off topic but K/D IS important to an extent on certain modes.  But in the end the guy who went 40/41 with 60 Obj points is worth more to me then the guy who went 60-4 sniping in the back of the map with no Obj points.

I guess I fall into the gamers catagory.  I want to be able to work as a team, people using the badges to their potental (using the reapir, placing good spawn greandes, bot distribution), and talk about what is going on around the objective (someone is arming/disarming) to win games.  But I also want to do this to maintain a good k/d, and you can do that while completing objectives.  I can be guilty of doing the sniping as well, but this is only on Pyrrhus Rise becasue of the emensely large map while defending the objectives.


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Wastelander
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Re: Is K/D really important?

Apr 24, 2009

Sorry for my bias opinion but I think it is VERY important. The game is a FPS i.e. primarily shooting in the whole game. Killing and Dying is a vital part of any FPS game and KDR shows how good you are at that.

 

I do fully understand that some people camp and don't take for the objectives. I know those people that only care about killing and not going for the win. It annoys me very much. However, trying to complete objectives most likely requires a good KDR. A good KDR ratio helps you prevent the enemy complete the objective by e.g. killing search and retrieve targets, pushing enemy defenses in assassination, bodycount, clearing the way for your teammates to set explosives in Search and Destroy, prevent players from capturing your bases and help you fend off enemies whilst you capture.

 

Personally, if you think KDR means nothing. Its like taking away the guns and weapons and just playing the game like that. They have weapons for a reason. To die. To be killed.

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Uncharted Territory
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Re: Is K/D really important?

Apr 24, 2009

A-K-3-3-M wrote:

Sorry for my bias opinion but I think it is VERY important. The game is a FPS i.e. primarily shooting in the whole game. Killing and Dying is a vital part of any FPS game and KDR shows how good you are at that.

 

I do fully understand that some people camp and don't take for the objectives. I know those people that only care about killing and not going for the win. It annoys me very much. However, trying to complete objectives most likely requires a good KDR. A good KDR ratio helps you prevent the enemy complete the objective by e.g. killing search and retrieve targets, pushing enemy defenses in assassination, bodycount, clearing the way for your teammates to set explosives in Search and Destroy, prevent players from capturing your bases and help you fend off enemies whilst you capture.

 

Personally, if you think KDR means nothing. Its like taking away the guns and weapons and just playing the game like that. They have weapons for a reason. To die. To be killed.


Well..yeah. It is important, after a while. I'm analyzing its use as a measure of how good someone is. After many hours of play, after the distractions of badges and the disadvantages are gone, everyone's K/D should converge to a legitimate value over time. Even in objective games, a 100 hr veteran had better have a good K/D. A 30 hr intermediate getting his last badge..not so much.

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Re: Is K/D really important?

Apr 24, 2009
Just a note, but you forgot to add that K/D in this game doesn't seem to be a  "true" kill death ratio.  You still can only have one death... but for a kill you can get multiple points which show as multiple kills.  It's not a true kill/death ratio... it's a kill points vs death ratio.  That's a huge difference right there.  Someone that has the head fetish ribbon unlocked should easily show more kills because they are getting more points per kill (it seems this way in the end of round points though in the individual stats it's hard to say how they are arrived at - regardless, the points system seems to make comparatives of KDR quite difficult unless both parties all have the same unlocks).

Another point is that many of the actual game objectives simply require death.  Often the only way to win an attack round is to have a spawn grenade near the objective and to keep respawning while taking out all of the enemy emplacements and I've even used my own body to shield a teammate who has been setting the bomb.  People that worry about their KDR tend to be the one's who spawn back at the home base, gradually make their way over and pick off the enemies on the outside - they're helping the team a bit... but not much.  The game is meant to be a hectic fragfest of death in some parts of the game... it's still strategic - but the strategies employed to win this game are generally team based strategies not individual strategies.

I guess I fall into that "gamer" category.  What means a lot more in this game is the overall game win/loss ratio.  That 1.5 multiplier is a heady inducement for a team win and in clan/tourney games it's the team win that matters, not the just the kills.  That rare person that is able to put together a squad of relative strangers and get them to work as an actual team is often the person that gets that team win... and that type of leadership quality is rarely guaged by stats.
Message Edited by Elsa on 04-24-2009 08:55 AM
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Uncharted Territory
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Re: Is K/D really important?

Apr 24, 2009

Elsa wrote:
Just a note, but you forgot to add that K/D in this game doesn't seem to be a  "true" kill death ratio.  You still can only have one death... but for a kill you can get multiple points which show as multiple kills.  It's not a true kill/death ratio... it's a kill points vs death ratio.  That's a huge difference right there.  Someone that has the head fetish ribbon unlocked should easily show more kills because they are getting more points per kill (it seems this way in the end of round points though in the individual stats it's hard to say how they are arrived at - regardless, the points system seems to make comparatives of KDR quite difficult unless both parties all have the same unlocks).

Another point is that many of the actual game objectives simply require death.  Often the only way to win an attack round is to have a spawn grenade near the objective and to keep respawning while taking out all of the enemy emplacements and I've even used my own body to shield a teammate who has been setting the bomb.  People that worry about their KDR tend to be the one's who spawn back at the home base, gradually make their way over and pick off the enemies on the outside - they're helping the team a bit... but not much.  The game is meant to be a hectic fragfest of death in some parts of the game... it's still strategic - but the strategies employed to win this game are generally team based strategies not individual strategies.

I guess I fall into that "gamer" category.  What means a lot more in this game is the overall game win/loss ratio.  That 1.5 multiplier is a heady inducement for a team win and in clan/tourney games it's the team win that matters, not the just the kills.  That rare person that is able to put together a squad of relative strangers and get them to work as an actual team is often the person that gets that team win... and that type of leadership quality is rarely guaged by stats.
Message Edited by Elsa on 04-24-2009 08:55 AM

I thought that the points under your target are just 'kill point', or points that have to do with killing. They get put into your score but don't actually count towards your K/D ratio (which you either calculate or check out Killzone.com to see). I'll have to check it out.

 

You're right about the whole objective difference in the way you play. I have a section for it, but I'll elaborate.

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