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Uncharted Territory
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Re: What do you want to see in Gran turismo 6?

Sep 8, 2012

exXboxFan wrote:

 

 

you forget that this game is not meant just for you.  but for all gamers, and tries to draw them into the world of cars and racing.


in order to do that, you have to give them some rudamentary challenges, even if often unrealistic.

there is a t rue method to a lot of the madness in GT.  PD and Kaz really do have some great ideas about how to draw people in and get them hooked.  thing is, that focus often distracts them from other things that matter.

if they dropped A-spec it really wouldnt' be GT anymore.  Perhaps you or I would like it better, but it would not be GT.


 

I'm curious, but are there any figures for what percentage of GT5 players have a decent enough internet connection to participate online?

 

In all honesty, if the majority of players don't, I am amazed that the dismal AI isn't the ONLY major gripe! That so many focus on wanting premium cars, or things like that tends to make me think that perhaps more people are getting their jollies on the web rather than stuck in limbo. I'd also be expecting to hear a litany of players wanting the Seasonals available as a disc-based add-on to A-Spec. Can't say I've heard that, either.

 

So I tend to think that most ARE hooked up.

 

The thing is, once your skills have improved to the point that you can drive most 500PP cars at race speed around a track without an off, where you are hitting your brake points and apexes (apices?) pretty consistently, to where you can lap without tire wear and generally get all your laps within .5sec or so, well you are at the point where the AI is of absolutely no challenge whatsoever. Unless you hobble yourself with a car or restrictions that basically put you in a totally different class of car than you are racing, anything other than the shortest race is pointless.

 

I have played other games where, sure, the AI isn't perfect, but they behave in a FAR more aggressive, unpredictable way. In fact, I rarely ever play it because of the lag issues on the PS3, but if my internet goes out, I pop my copy of Shift2 into the PS3. At least there, I can race for many many laps, and have a pack of AI either ahead (and blocking) or nipping at my heels. So I believe it CAN be done.

 

But if PD can't bring themselves to do it, what player WITHOUT an internet connection is going to enjoy GT5/6 past the initial learning stage..?

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First Son
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Re: What do you want to see in Gran turismo 6?

Sep 8, 2012

Sorry for the mistakes, I have written at some translator.
One. Porsche is quite interesting. It would be nice to have some Premium models.
2nd. The Silverstone track in England.
3rd. A greater number of premium cars.
4th. Getting to race with the cars and drivers B-spec you have. Set track, pp limit, short cv and use as their opponents pilots B-spec car that defines each will run against you.

This is my first comment here.

Hugs!

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Uncharted Territory
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Re: What do you want to see in Gran turismo 6?

Sep 11, 2012

Destinkeys wrote:

I have played other games where, sure, the AI isn't perfect, but they behave in a FAR more aggressive, unpredictable way. In fact, I rarely ever play it because of the lag issues on the PS3, but if my internet goes out, I pop my copy of Shift2 into the PS3. At least there, I can race for many many laps, and have a pack of AI either ahead (and blocking) or nipping at my heels. So I believe it CAN be done.

 

But if PD can't bring themselves to do it, what player WITHOUT an internet connection is going to enjoy GT5/6 past the initial learning stage..?


Would agree the AI in Shift 2 are down right ornery compared to GT5's follow the leader walls with wheels. They are decently human like in their aggressiveness and tactics. 4za's are better than GT5's, but the pre programmed bonehead moves when you're on a bad lap and the random "just because I love you" turn ins and blocking moves get annoying, they aren't racing you at that point, just trying to take you out.

 

Nascar 98 had better AI than GT5... It can be done.

 

As for past the initial curve or completion, the only thing I do with GT5 ATM is race online with a few friends. The game has nothing to offer but same old seaonla seasoning, something I lost the taste for long ago. Follow the leader is OK sometimes, but a steady diet of it does nothing but make it the same all the time, the just change the names to protect the Artificially Intelligent.

 

I'd actually like to see the A Spec of old make a comeback, along with the Online component being improved. I was quite disappointed with the gutting of the single player game for Brie Spec TV and seasonings. If it weren't for online, I'd have been done playing GT5 6 months to a year ago, and only the 2.0 update and the track DLC made it interesting enough to stick around for that.

 

_

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Fender Bender
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Re: What do you want to see in Gran turismo 6?

[ Edited ]
Sep 11, 2012

Dan_Zitions wrote:
Would agree the AI in Shift 2 are down right ornery compared to GT5's follow the leader walls with wheels. They are decently human like in their aggressiveness and tactics. 4za's are better than GT5's, but the pre programmed bonehead moves when you're on a bad lap and the random "just because I love you" turn ins and blocking moves get annoying, they aren't racing you at that point, just trying to take you out.

 

Nascar 98 had better AI than GT5... It can be done.

 

As for past the initial curve or completion, the only thing I do with GT5 ATM is race online with a few friends. The game has nothing to offer but same old seasonal seasoning, something I lost the taste for long ago. Follow the leader is OK sometimes, but a steady diet of it does nothing but make it the same all the time, the just change the names to protect the Artificially Intelligent.

 

I'd actually like to see the A Spec of old make a comeback, along with the Online component being improved. I was quite disappointed with the gutting of the single player game for Brie Spec TV and seasonings. If it weren't for online, I'd have been done playing GT5 6 months to a year ago, and only the 2.0 update and the track DLC made it interesting enough to stick around for that.

 

_


 

The most challenging AI I have come across is in Ferrari Challenge by System3.

It was so bad when the title first released the community about went Montoya-on-jet-dryer.

The dev later tamed it somewhat in a patch, but in dynamic difficulty mode(adapts to you) they are still not only aggressive, they react somewhat realistically by blocking and taking lines making your pass attempt much more difficult. They are not dirty, anymore lol, but it requires you to put a somewhat normal thought process in place as far as passing.

 

I liked it then and I still enjoy it as a break from GT once in awhile. :-)

 

A similar "Dynamic Difficulty Mode) is something I would like to see in GT.

It would remove some of the frustration we are seeing now with seasonals being too difficult for some.

With a dynamic difficulty ability, the game would use your own offline play to learn how fast you are, and all offline ineractions and challenges could be at a level tailored specifically for each individual. Nothing wuold be easy this way, so every win is earned. 

Allowing players to win, but not easily, is a very good thing. 

 



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Uncharted Territory
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Re: What do you want to see in Gran turismo 6?

Sep 11, 2012

nuTTTz wrote:

The most challenging AI I have come across is in Ferrari Challenge by System3.

It was so bad when the title first released the community about went Montoya-on-jet-dryer.

The dev later tamed it somewhat in a patch, but in dynamic difficulty mode(adapts to you) they are still not only aggressive, they react somewhat realistically by blocking and taking lines making your pass attempt much more difficult. They are not dirty, anymore lol, but it requires you to put a somewhat normal thought process in place as far as passing.

 

I liked it then and I still enjoy it as a break from GT once in awhile. :-)

 

A similar "Dynamic Difficulty Mode) is something I would like to see in GT.

It would remove some of the frustration we are seeing now with seasonals being too difficult for some.

With a dynamic difficulty ability, the game would use your own offline play to learn how fast you are, and all offline ineractions and challenges could be at a level tailored specifically for each individual. Nothing wuold be easy this way, so every win is earned. 

Allowing players to win, but not easily, is a very good thing. 

 



I've played many a game with adapable AI. Forcing the player to adapt and learn is not a bad thing at all...

 

If I were PD, I'd definitely want to take that approach now, and certainly for GT6.

 

But instead of just using your lines, use the lines and laps from any of the thousands of races and seasonals and time trials run every day.

 

Allow the AI to run based on that. Even having the AI run the same lines as another driver's ghost replay of a lap with a time somewhat near yours would be better than what we have. Probably take a whole lot less processor to do it too.

 

From there it's the limits of the car and the limits of the track and the physics that take over.

 

Less experienced AI shy away from the limits, aggressive AI push them.

 

And have the "PASS THAT $@%#$ CAR AHEAD" B Spec button constantly pushed from race start... Smiley Very Happy

 

PD has a tendency to make things much more complicated than they need to be, and the AI is one of those things.

 

After getting your own "hand hammered wok" to victory lane in Shift 2, running the GT5 AI is like watching paint dry.

 

Even a simple widening of the AI line to allow them to move around and pass each other would help.

 

Throw in a little "Hey, I actually want to win" as opposed to strapping Buz Lightyear's booster rockets on the lead car and you'd at least have "some" competition.

 

And what I really, really...and I do mean REALLY...wish they'd get rid of is the AI moving over garbage.

 

Hold your %$#@ line. Stay in the draft, go faster.

 

Stop being so %$%# considerate and slowing yourself down.

 

I feel like I'm on the expressway they change lanes so many flippin times...

 

I abhor that. I detest that. It's repugnant, distasteful, and utterly stupid.

 

I thought they were racing cars.

 

Instead they act and drive like they're %$^@* Valet's looking for a parking spot.

 

Ugh.

 

Sorry.

 

I'd say I got carried away but you'd need a few heavy cranes and Semi...

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Keyblade Wielder
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Re: What do you want to see in Gran turismo 6?

Sep 11, 2012

Dan_Zitions wrote:

And what I really, really...and I do mean REALLY...wish they'd get rid of is the AI moving over garbage.

 

Hold your %$#@ line. Stay in the draft, go faster.

 

Stop being so %$%# considerate and slowing yourself down.



remember before they changed it that way, though?  IMO it was worse before, where the AI would not move no matter what.  In racing, if someone gets beside you, it is understood that you do not swing out and push them sideways.

 

this was t heir fix, albeit a strange one.  I remember most people commenting satisfactorily that the AI was better after that update.

 

but yes you are right that they slow down too much and with little reason.  that should be toned down a bit IMO.

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Uncharted Territory
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Re: What do you want to see in Gran turismo 6?

Sep 12, 2012

I would like to see an option to have mikes auto muted (ALL drivers) during a race.

 

TBH, in public rooms at least, open mikes are usually used to blather on and on endlessly about nothing much to do with the race, or an opportunity by the Tourette's sufferers to yell obscenity!

 

I'd like to use a mike, to better host or talk between races, but the job of having to mute ALL mikes before the race, then turn them back on afterwards make it an all or nothing thing.

 

There also seems to be anecdotal evidence that rooms without mikes seem to suffer a bit less from internet lag symptoms. Perhaps an option to limit mike chat of ANY sort during the race itself, but allow it before and after would allow the best of both worlds?

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Keyblade Wielder
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Re: What do you want to see in Gran turismo 6?

Sep 12, 2012

I'd suggest that a definition of clean racing include proper mic ettiquette, because that is part of making sure you are not ruining someone's race.

 

I for one, would love the ability to mute individuals rather than the whole bunch.  or can we do that already?  and is that the same in private lounges vs public?  I seriously can't remember.

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Fender Bender
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Re: What do you want to see in Gran turismo 6?

[ Edited ]
Sep 13, 2012

Dan_Zitions wrote:


I've played many a game with adapable AI. Forcing the player to adapt and learn is not a bad thing at all...

 

If I were PD, I'd definitely want to take that approach now, and certainly for GT6.

 

But instead of just using your lines, use the lines and laps from any of the thousands of races and seasonals and time trials run every day.

 

Allow the AI to run based on that. Even having the AI run the same lines as another driver's ghost replay of a lap with a time somewhat near yours would be better than what we have. Probably take a whole lot less processor to do it too.

 

From there it's the limits of the car and the limits of the track and the physics that take over.

 

Less experienced AI shy away from the limits, aggressive AI push them.

 

And have the "PASS THAT $@%#$ CAR AHEAD" B Spec button constantly pushed from race start... Smiley Very Happy

 

PD has a tendency to make things much more complicated than they need to be, and the AI is one of those things.

 

After getting your own "hand hammered wok" to victory lane in Shift 2, running the GT5 AI is like watching paint dry.

 

Even a simple widening of the AI line to allow them to move around and pass each other would help.

 

Throw in a little "Hey, I actually want to win" as opposed to strapping Buz Lightyear's booster rockets on the lead car and you'd at least have "some" competition.

 

And what I really, really...and I do mean REALLY...wish they'd get rid of is the AI moving over garbage.

 

Hold your %$#@ line. Stay in the draft, go faster.

 

Stop being so %$%# considerate and slowing yourself down.

 

I feel like I'm on the expressway they change lanes so many flippin times...

 

I abhor that. I detest that. It's repugnant, distasteful, and utterly stupid.

 

I thought they were racing cars.

 

Instead they act and drive like they're %$^@* Valet's looking for a parking spot.

 

Ugh.

 

Sorry.

 

I'd say I got carried away but you'd need a few heavy cranes and Semi...


Can I make a suggestion please?  I really don't mean to sound like a @ss when I suggest this...for the sake of your replies not being so long, can you not double space every sentance and use paragraphs?

 

Yeah I know, I sound like the typical grammer police guy on every forum but I think others might dare to agree with me on this one.  Just so we can enjoy reading all of what you have to say without having to constantly scroll the screen.

 

Let me assist you this first time, remember, every thought has it's own paragraph.  See how much shorter and less screen space your replies now take?  Nice!

 

 

 

"I've played many a game with adapable AI. Forcing the player to adapt and learn is not a bad thing at all.  If I were PD, I'd definitely want to take that approach now, and certainly for GT6, but instead of just using your lines, use the lines and laps from any of the thousands of races and seasonals and time trials run every day.   Allow the AI to run based on that, even having the AI run the same lines as another driver's ghost replay of a lap with a time somewhat near yours would be better than what we have. Probably take a whole lot less processor to do it too.

 

From there it's the limits of the car and the limits of the track and the physics that take over.  Less experienced AI shy away from the limits, aggressive AI push them, and have the "PASS THAT $@%#$ CAR AHEAD" B Spec button constantly pushed from race start... Smiley Very Happy  PD has a tendency to make things much more complicated than they need to be, and the AI is one of those things.

 

After getting your own "hand hammered wok" to victory lane in Shift 2, running the GT5 AI is like watching paint dry.  Even a simple widening of the AI line to allow them to move around and pass each other would help.  Throw in a little "Hey, I actually want to win" as opposed to strapping Buz Lightyear's booster rockets on the lead car and you'd at least have "some" competition.

 

And what I really, really...and I do mean REALLY...wish they'd get rid of is the AI moving over garbage.  Hold your %$#@ line. Stay in the draft, go faster. Stop being so %$%# considerate and slowing yourself down.  I feel like I'm on the expressway they change lanes so many flippin times...  I abhor that. I detest that. It's repugnant, distasteful, and utterly stupid.  I thought they were racing cars, instead they act and drive like they're %$^@* Valet's looking for a parking spot.

 

Ugh.

 

Sorry.

 

I'd say I got carried away but you'd need a few heavy cranes and Semi..."

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First Son
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Re: What do you want to see in Gran turismo 6?

Sep 13, 2012

more hondas and acuras why idk im just a jdm fan 

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