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Uncharted Territory
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Re: What do you want to see in Gran tourism 6?

Oct 9, 2012

Can I presume you are talking about PCARS?

 

Couple of quick comparison questions. My last experience with an SMS game was the horribly banjaxed Shift2 Unleashed. A more putrid example of a game released before major bugs were fixed is hard to think of. Primary to which was the input lag on PS3. XBox and PC versions got updates, PS3 never did. Hard to trust these guys after that (blame EA all you want, SMS let it go out in the first place without fixing the primary input code). Is the controller response (on a wheel) as good and quick as GT5?

 

Then there were issues with 'sticky' AI and walls that caused some VERY weird behavior when minor bumps turned into visits to the morgue. Has that been fixed?

 

Finally, FFB was pretty weird, with many cars exhibiting some pretty uncontrollable wobbling (like the pre-update Red Bull, or EvoX used to) as hysteresis in the center position of the wheel caused an uncontrollable oscillation. Plus, as you lost grip, all feel from the wheels tended to disappear. Have they changed that?

 

Sadly, if these things weren't so incredibly bad on S2U, I would still be happily playing that game (at least offline... online needed FAR better filters and ways to kick disruptive kids). The car selection was about perfect, the track selection was inspired, the sound was visceral and sounded like, well, racing! Cut scenes were actual video, not ghoulish zombie mannequins, and the AI, at least if you didn't hit them, were challenging and creative, and could keep up with you lap after lap.

 

For the want of a nail...

 

So, have they found the nail?

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Uncharted Territory
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Re: What do you want to see in Gran tourism 6?

Oct 9, 2012

Feldynn wrote

To my understanding this thread is about things we'd want in GT6 not simply fixes for GT5 persay, but for the sake of discussion if GT6 comes with significantly improved AI and a proper in-depth career mode (as well as a general A-spec mode like we have for those that just want to jump in cars and race in the various events) then there WOULD be a point to play the singleplayer / offline mode.

The thing is, PD have ignored requests for a better AI for at least the last 3 games (or at least been unable to deliver). I am just not sure, if distracted by a million other requests, that they will finally see how essential this ONE thing is.

 

As I said, IF the AI were fixed, and in spectacular fashion, TBH the game would be eminently playable as is. But unless this is fixed as the primary improvement, little else is going to make a difference. If experience has shown anything, it is that PD are easily distracted. Let's try to get them to focus...

 

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I Only Post Everything
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Re: What do you want to see in Gran tourism 6?

Oct 9, 2012
Am I right in thinking you're talking about pCars, Dan?

If so they, yes, I completely agree with you. I don't have the PC to adequately run it right now though from what I've seen and heard (and briefly played myself) it is setting the bar very high.

In fact I recently stumbled onto an older game called Race 07 on the PC, granted the graphics aren't as good as GT5 (more GT4 I'd say so it's actually not bad) it's made by Simbin which I believe are the folks that did the physics for pCars.

A few of us Tunas have been tinkering around with that too and even given it's age it's still an amazingly good game (well worth the $2.99 price on Steam, not counting addons), it certainly puts some aspects of GT5 to shame.

Hopefully PD is at least paying attention to their competitors, if they are then they have a good chance of making GT6 something very special indeed.

And still retain that GT uniqueness that we've all grown to love.

I think I mentioned in another thread that GT has always been my Hotel California of racing games, I can check out any time I like but I never seem to leave and always find myself picking it up again.

You're right, the coming year is going to be very interesting indeed!

Hopefully I won't have to move to a new hotel, but if I do should I book a room in your name for after the transplant? Smiley Happy
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Re: What do you want to see in Gran tourism 6?

Oct 10, 2012

I didn't want to mention names, but you're assumptions are correct.

 

@DK: It WAS EA that caused the problems for SHIFT, that's where the fault lies with EA games. They do not support their games, they do not patch their games. It's been that way forever. It's why I don't but anything with an EA logo on it anymore for any reason.

 

What is happening in the game I won't mention by name is hardly the same. Anyone willing to be involved has a voice, though many on this forum would be booted and have their money refunded as the type of bickering and name calling that's been witnessed here is non existent there. It isn't tolerated, period.

 

The company is developing this game WITH those participating. They actively interact on the forums all the time, and all critiques and opinions are tested, evaluated and recoded and or adjusted as needed. The whole reason they went this route was the EA constrictions that prevented them from doing exactly this. They wanted to fix and patch and make it right, but weren't able to. If anything, this game is their redemption as a company to make up for it. Players bring up SHIFT comparisons all the time as reference points, they are well aware of how things went vs what they really wanted to do.

 

The only other company I know of that is this open at all is paradox. They were always very involved with their community, and did a number of expansions at community request. Being a small company with a very dedicated core fan base, they used the expansion paks to pay for the extra features the community wanted to have. They met them in the middle most times, incorporating some into the existing game free, and the really new stuff into the pak. You still had a complete game either way. And to say their games are complex and deep... If RISK was a mud puddle, Europa Universalis is the Atlantic. They were on a level of depth beyond anything else. The CIV franchise would maybe be a great lake... They also opened up the complete game on their first game engine for people to use to create their own game from. It was cheap too, well within reach of the average team of people wanting to go for it. They got a chunk of sales, but heck, having a working game engine to fool with to make you're own vision isn't something you see every day.

 

With the race sim, it's not your every day adventure at all. Just as an example, there are player settable sliders for AI behavior to set. You can make evil bastages, Mr Nice Guys or even Mr. T who "pities the non drivin' fool" if you want. No "sticky AI issue". Everything that can be adjustable to the players liking that can be is, and the number of things you can button map and hot key makes the RM menu shorter than the kiddie menu at the local Friendly's.

 

This is not going to be another SHIFT game. Though you have very valid points about those games, the parent company pushing the schedules and determining the budget makes the call. If what you're saying were true, there'd be no need for what they're doing now...

 

@Feldynn..: Everything graphics wise is scalable, you can make the frame rate acceptable on nearly any machine. They're going back over 6 years in some cases with some people's computers, including lap tops. The sheer mix of hardware is incredible that this thing is being tested on.

 

And no need to worry about getting a PC, it's going to be ported to all three platforms. Yes, that's right... Even the lowly new Nintendo box is going to have a real actual factual racing sim, as well as the PS3 and that other thing I don't need anymore. The PC version will be done first, and every build is getting... Well, let's just say there's a spot in front of my chair on the floor worn out from my jaw constantly dropping. Even in alpha, with many items still to do it's a better game than most I've played in a good while. 

 

It will be interesting to see the PS3 port. To have a game that looks like SHIFT but drives like GT would be a dream. I don't know if they can do it with the current platforms or if they will have to wait, but it looks as though they are scaling everything to make it sooner rather than later, so maybe PS3... If that's the case, PD will really need to put their thinking caps on. 

 

I hope to visit Oz and company for the usual days, but with winter coming it gets particularly difficult for me. Driving is about half the time of summer with joints and a back that hate the cold. I have joints that won't even bend on some days, makes it rather difficult to steer, use the pedals etc.

 

But I can (and will be) painting a ton. Having that old NASCAR 98 type ability and having it pop on the big screen in Hi Def is hard to beat, and none of the goofy 4za limitations.

 

So far, the only draw back is in using specific corporate names. They are going the route of creating fictional logos for cost reasons. You can replace them to use yourself, you can share them off site, but they won't allow anything with a non affiliated logo to go through the official site. This doesn't bother me in the slightest, it was the same back in the NASCAR days with certain items like beer companies and all.

 

Besides, at 100+ MPH, I'm not trying to read the side of a car anyway. ?B)

 

As for the Hotel... As you say, my heart has always had a soft spot for GT.

 

Lately I've been staying at the heartbreak hotel... I just don't have the time (literally) to waste posting in a forum like I have been with nothing to show for it. GT is a great game with some very irritating minor quirks that needed to be fixed a year ago. Sadly, it still is...

 

If by chance they fix those things so GT5 can be a better experience without all the hassle, maybe some love returns. If GT6 proves to be that much better than 5, as I have said, when the last "this one really has everything in, promise..!" edition comes out I'll pick it up. Till then, my money goes to a company that listens and actually tries to accommodate, or at least offers me a solid "why we shouldn't".

 

Friends is friends, business is business.

 

This is business... Smiley Wink

 

__

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Re: What do you want to see in Gran tourism 6?

[ Edited ]
Oct 10, 2012

Dan_Zitions wrote:

 

 

So far, the only draw back is in using specific corporate names. They are going the route of creating fictional logos for cost reasons. You can replace them to use yourself, you can share them off site, but they won't allow anything with a non affiliated logo to go through the official site. This doesn't bother me in the slightest, it was the same back in the NASCAR days with certain items like beer companies and all.

 

 

__


Dan, click here please - http://community.us.playstation.com/t5/Racing-General/Project-C-A-R-S-for-PS3/m-p/37716549#U37716549

 

I'm hoping we can move the pCARS discussion to the pCARS thread.

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Uncharted Territory
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Re: What do you want to see in Gran tourism 6?

Oct 11, 2012

Dan, I'm sorry, but blaming EA doesn't really cut it when it comes to something as basic as the input lag. This isn't something that only becomes apparent at the later stages of coding. This is BASIC. Not to mention, the lag was much better on Shift 1, so the code existed. Not to mention that EA bankrolled the updates for XBox and PC. I'm pretty sure if SMS had had a fix for PS3, they would have bankrolled that too.

 

One of my worries about a PS3 version of PCARS is that putting out updates on consoles is a VERY expensive proposition. Let's face it, if EA are to blame, and wouldn't pay the extra to release a PS3 fix, how on earth are little SMS going to afford it..? Their Q&A had better be light years better than they had it for EA, and the game had better be virtually flawless at release, or we may see the same thing all over again.

 

SMS do a great job with the PC community, but only because they are getting constant feedback, and able to make patches available very quickly. But a console release isn't going to have this ability. They would go broke putting out even a few updates to fix bugs. And, I'm sorry, but blaming EA for all the bugs in S2U is like blaming the hostess for your bad food, and giving the chef a free pass!

 

And, I have my doubts they can do a much better job with the PS3 with regard to framerates and resolution than they did with S2U, which only ran at 720p (if that) and doesn't have anywhere NEAR the visual genius that the PC is already showing. I can only hope they wait for the PS4. That MIGHT give the PC version a run for its money, but the PS3 is wheezing along on its last legs!

 

Sadly, I only have a Mac, so running PCARS is iffy at best (I don't really want to create a Windows Bootcamp system and go through all those PC worries just to play a game!), but if it goes Gold Master one day and the PS4 isn't out yet, I'm going to wait a LONG time to see what issues the PS3 version has. Fool me once...

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Re: What do you want to see in Gran tourism 6?

[ Edited ]
Oct 12, 2012

I had a response, but the forum lost it. So, the last post in abbreviated form...

 

Mr DK..:

 

You're talking history. You're talking about games under the EA flagship.  EA is to blame. It's their way of doing business.

 

Before you go off and defend them...
 

GT5 was pushed out the door 2 years early by who..?

 

I see your point and raise you some IQ.

 

PD said it wasn't ready, they knew it wasn't ready.

 

The publisher pushes the button, the developer says "but"...

The publisher says "contract" and the developer says "but"...

The publisher says "release it" and the developer says "but"...

The game says "ready or not, here I come..."

 

After release, bugs, chaos, bad names or reviews.

 

The publisher says "fix it". The game maker tries, but they don't work for free. Some care more than others, on both sides of that fence. Some tough decisions get made. EA has a history of cutting developers off at the knees. SONY was a bit more forgiving, but even they had to push the button.

 

EA is not a company to look to for game support, nor a good way of doing business. There's a reason they have to advertise as they do. They're like the car lot you see on TV every 5 minutes because they constantly need new customers. Anyone who bought from them won't go back.

 

PD on the other hand has made numerous attempts to fix the game, to improve the game. That's because in that respect they are a VERY good company. They take responsibility, and they find ways to pay for it while they work. They aren't the most communicative bunch in existence, but at least they try... Which is more than anyone can ever say about EA.

 

Now we both realize that's a VERY simplistic view laid out there, we're both smart enough to realize it's actually a bit more complicated.... But in EA's case, the ratio of support vs "make them buy a new game" is history too. It's been the way they do things forever. Just because they make money doing it doesn't mean they do it right. Just ask the guys at ENRON about it...

 

And stars man, you don't even own a PC, so you have no clue what you're comparing...

 

That makes no sense at all. I mean believe it or not, but things change.

 

I see what I see, and it's nothing like you're imagination. That's the only thing that doesn't "cut it". Making argument based on comparisons that are based on whims and "old times". I'll debate no problem, but you're arguing a pointless point. There's no way to understand something or way to argue for what you have no idea of.

 

Might as well try and convince me the invisible man has blond hair.

 

That sort of logic will fool you every time...

___________________________________________________________

 

Mr Wizard..:

 

The last thing I want to do is find another place to talk about something else on this forum.

 

I want to hear GT5 opinions, and discuss things "in relation to GT5".

 

If I want to hear from NFS, 4za or Mario Kart players, I'd have already gone there.

 

I hate how narrow minded and narrow focused forums are. No flexibility, no tolerance, no respect, no new perspectives, no "hey you just might learn ya something..." Just stick to parading good stuff about whatever the top of the page says. Don't express anything else. Don't think, don't compare, don't question... And above all else absolutely do not try to understand anything, ever.

 

Ist Verboten..!

 

Thanks for the tip, and the link, but no thanks.

 

Right now I'm too busy poking PD with a stick to see if they're still breathing.

 

I thought it nicer than getting out the magnifying glass or air horn...

 

I'm trying to be gentle in case they're just sleeping a little. Don't want to scare the you know what out of them.

 

____

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Excatly what needs to be done (GT6)

Oct 12, 2012

I Feel that GT6 will have alot to offer as previous of the Gran Turismo History. There's a 99% chance most that was mentioned on your top ten is alredy done. People strives for PERFECTION In meaning the creators of the GT6 project. Will do whats needed. They look & Observe the Forums & Suggestions from there consumers Meaning  "US" So its a done deal. No matter what they do they always come up top.NOTHING TOPS THE GT SERIES NOT EVEN FORZA.Lmaoooo. Gran Turismo BEING Gran Turismo is excatly what needs to be done. Smiley Happy

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Re: What do you want to see in Gran tourism 6?

Oct 12, 2012

There is a big difference between a forum focused on one game or topic and having a freeforall, which is disorganised and chaotic. The Racing General forum is there to be used, too. Using it shows that we are mature, organised, considerate of others, and openminded.

 

 

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Re: What do you want to see in Gran tourism 6?

[ Edited ]
Oct 12, 2012

Dan_Zitions wrote:

 

___________________________________________________________

 

Mr Wizard..:

 

The last thing I want to do is find another place to talk about something else on this forum.

 

I want to hear GT5 opinions, and discuss things "in relation to GT5".

 

If I want to hear from NFS, 4za or Mario Kart players, I'd have already gone there.

 

I hate how narrow minded and narrow focused forums are. No flexibility, no tolerance, no respect, no new perspectives, no "hey you just might learn ya something..." Just stick to parading good stuff about whatever the top of the page says. Don't express anything else. Don't think, don't compare, don't question... And above all else absolutely do not try to understand anything, ever.

 

Ist Verboten..!

 

Thanks for the tip, and the link, but no thanks.

 

Right now I'm too busy poking PD with a stick to see if they're still breathing.

 

I thought it nicer than getting out the magnifying glass or air horn...

 

I'm trying to be gentle in case they're just sleeping a little. Don't want to scare the you know what out of them.

 

____


I was only trying to get a question answered without cluttering a GT thread with pCARS stuff.  Thanks anyway.  Sorry to have bothered you.

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