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Fender Bender
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Re: Some thoughts on PD, the 2.08 update & the Forum Community

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Sep 30, 2012

Hey Destinkeys,

 

Go download the F1 2012 demo from the PS Store, if you haven't already.  Check out the penalty system in that game.  You get a penalty for illegal blocking, causing wrecks, aggressive driving, cutting corners, all kinds of stuff.  Real racing rules.  With that game your car doesn't ghost when you get a penalty, the penalty you get is time added on at the end of the race.  So if you cross the finish line in first, but got a bunch of 10 second penalties during the race, the place you actually finish may be 8th.  So if you really want to win, you HAVE to race clean.  The AI in that game, I think, is pretty good, they avoid you, block you, they are aware of you, they don't just run a predetermined line like they do in this game.  And the game has a full grid of cars, I think at least 30 on the track, pretty intense.  The AI on normal will give you some good competition too.  Challenge to catch the leaders and the cars behind you are on your butt, it's wild.

 

In the demo you do a race on Monza like we have in this game.  The demo doesn't let you race online so I couldn't check to see how the penalty system works online, but if it's similar to single player, that would be a great step in the right direction PD could go with this game.  Do time penalties during the race for dirty driving that get added on at the end of the race to determine where you really finish.  Heck you can even get flat tires in that game.  LOL

 

Go give it a try, see what you think of the penalty system.

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Uncharted Territory
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Re: Some thoughts on PD, the 2.08 update & the Forum Community

Sep 30, 2012

The only thing that proves though, is that it CAN be done...

 

I already have the demo, but haven't had time to play it yet. The thing that worries me the most is, TBH, if F1 2012 is a really accurate sim, an accurate physics replica, I am QUITE sure I do not have the reflexes to be able to drive it cleanly..! I mean, even the very best drivers in the world have problems... No TC, no ABS, no aids whatsoever. I have enough problems driving 500PP cars without losing it... ;-)

 

So, if the handling is nerfed enough that mere mortals like me can keep the hammer down, I am not sure I want to play it... There's something about banging around in cars I can drive in real life that I really relate to. No-one in their right minds is ever going to give me seat time in an F1 car! LOL

 

But kudos to Codemasters for giving a sh** about the actual rules of the sport they are making a game about. And the next time anyone poo-poos us for wanting this in GT5, and claims it can't be done, let's rub their noses in this...

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Fender Bender
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Re: Some thoughts on PD, the 2.08 update & the Forum Community

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Sep 30, 2012

Just do your best at it just to check out the penalty system.  Put the difficulty on Easy.  The cool thing is, the game seems to know when you cut a corner on purpose and when it's an accident.  In getting used to the game I cut corners on purpose and the game gave me a warning flag at first to not do it again, then penalty if I did, but when I cut the corner on accident where I didn't break soon enough for the chicane, or if I bumped another car and went through the corner, the game didn't give me a warning, didn't give me a penalty.

 

What I thought was also cool was the full grid of cars, and they seemed intelligent not only to me but each other.  You can spin a AI car completely off the track and the AI car will not try to re-enter back onto the track until it knows the track is clear to do so.

 

As far as timing, you have a pit captain that comes over the radio and tells you at each timing line how far the next car is ahead of you, how far the next car is behind you, the condition of your car.

 

You also can have full control over your car entering and leaving the pits.

 

It says at the beginning of the demo that it doesn't reflect the finished product, so I think I'll have to take a trip to my local video store and see if I can rent it to play the full version.  The only two things that didn't impress me about the demo was the graphics weren't as good as GT5 and the car physics aren't what I'm used to in this game.  But I was impressed with everything else, smart AI, full grid of cars with good competition, realistic penalties.  When you race the AI in that game you really feel like your racing and racing the entire field of cars, not just the one or two cars that bolt out into the lead with this game and the rest of the AI are just turning laps.

 

Granted some of the penalties in that game are specific to that sport, but if they can do it....

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Hekseville Citizen
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Re: Some thoughts on PD, the 2.08 update & the Forum Community

Oct 1, 2012

Destinkeys wrote:

 

But kudos to Codemasters for giving a sh** about the actual rules of the sport they are making a game about. And the next time anyone poo-poos us for wanting this in GT5, and claims it can't be done, let's rub their noses in this...



I have never seen wear PD said that they represent any racing orginization, like NASCAR, FIA F1, DTM, JGTC, WRC, ASN, IKF, the list goes on. Yes, there are cars from all of these types of racing in the game, but PD never said that they were the "official" game of any of the above orginizations. GT has always been about the love of cars, and being able to drive them as fast as we can and not kill anyone.  Now with GT5, we have "online" racing and we have found problems in the open lobbys. And now eveyone wants PD to fix it. So if PD was the official game of one of the above originizations then, yes, they would need to fix something. But GT5 is exactly what PD says it is. A driving sim. Thats all. The goal is to give us the closest thing to the real world for car feeling. And when something is off a bit, there is a update to try to fix it. They have no control on how people act in the open lobbys, and even say this in the agreement you have to accept when you first start the game. Sony is the only group that can do anything.

 

 And you want to rub MY nose in it? Dream on little one.

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Fender Bender
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Re: Some thoughts on PD, the 2.08 update & the Forum Community

Oct 1, 2012

The only reason why this game was brought up is because Destinkeys has been talking about the penalty system GT5 currently has and the new car ghosting feature we got with the most recent update.  In another thread he was talking about ways PD could impliment game features for hosts to better regulate their rooms, etc.

 

I got online a few nights ago to play GT5 and saw I had a message from a friend of mine where he recommended the demo to me to try, so I did.  The way that the game handles penalties I thought would be an interest to him since he's been advocating something better for GT5.  The theory of, if PD is going to impliment racing penalties into the game, (which they've done) then why not maximize the effectivness of it.

 

I thought this other game and what they did could be a good referrence point.  While the game is specific to F1, the penalty system put in place to handle corner cutting, blocking, ramming people off the track, causing accidents could essentially be implimented in any racing game as a way to help enforce and promote clean racing for everyone who plays.  Clean racing, and clean racing rules aren't specific to F1.

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Hekseville Citizen
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Re: Some thoughts on PD, the 2.08 update & the Forum Community

Oct 1, 2012

And so dose GT5. All you have to do is turn them on. Then you will have cars that ghost. I do not expect PD to do any major changes in GT5, I feel/hope that GT6 will have major changes.

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Uncharted Territory
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Re: Some thoughts on PD, the 2.08 update & the Forum Community

Oct 1, 2012

Lord_Beelzebub wrote: Clean racing, and clean racing rules aren't specific to F1.

 

This...

 

You know, sometimes I wonder whether many here actually WATCH racing! Because of the dangerous nature of the sport, motorsports is one of the MOST highly regulated sports. 

 

And PLEASE! Can we get over this hoary 'driving sim' excude for every racing shortcoming in the game? When every single track mile in GT5 is on a RACETRACK, how anyone can pretend that GT5 is not a racing sim, and excuse it all by going 'it's a driving sim' beats me. Show me traffic lights, pedestrians and traffic coming the other way, you can have your 'driving sim' excuse. Until then, try harder...

 

Find a reason why a racing game has NO racing rules.

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Re: Some thoughts on PD, the 2.08 update & the Forum Community

Oct 1, 2012

THE_KART96 wrote:

And so dose GT5. All you have to do is turn them on. Then you will have cars that ghost. I do not expect PD to do any major changes in GT5, I feel/hope that GT6 will have major changes.


Again, I ask... have you ever watched any real racing? You EVER see a car ghost? Didn't think so. Ghosting is not an acceptable penalty, even if it WERE being applied correctly. Which it isn't - 50% of the time, the wrong car gets penalized, ghosting happens when no infraction has occurred (like so much of the tight pack ghosting), or some blatant track cuts are penalized, some are not.

 

GT5's penalty system is a joke, which is why the move of offering 100% of the cars ghosted is such a BS tactic. It doesn't solve the problem, it doesn't even make it better. In fact, it makes it MUCH worse.

 

And I'm sorry, but if this is PD's direction when faced with penalty problems, and too much bashing online, I DON'T feel GT6 will have major changes. PD are building their games for players of virtually no skills, or desire to learn skills (you'll NEVER learn to race clean with all cars ghosted!). If PD gave even the tiniest rats about fair and clean racing, they would never have put this feature out.

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Hekseville Citizen
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Re: Some thoughts on PD, the 2.08 update & the Forum Community

Oct 2, 2012

"sigh" I have raced in the real world for 20+ years. From karts to sleds.  So lets leave that alone.

 As for what you are asking PD to do.  Yes. F1 has a different system and as you have pointed out, it follows the rules of the FIA. To do this, the main code the game was developed so that everything in the game works together to give out penalties. For PD to do that, the complete game code would have to be re-written. And by doing so, this could effect other parts of the game. So now PD would have to start from day 1 and in the end, come out with a new game disk as that is were the main code is. The chances of that happening is 0%. I understand ,and I think many others here also understand, that you want changes. That point is a dead horse that keeps on getting beated on. All I am saying is that you will most likely will see changes in GT6. And if that point is a game breaker for you, just move on. Let the rest of us enjoy GT5 for what it is. It sounds like you and some others have found something better. Ok, great, enjoy it. Have fun.

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Uncharted Territory
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Re: Some thoughts on PD, the 2.08 update & the Forum Community

Oct 2, 2012

Track cutting and 'avoidable contact' is pretty much universally penalized in virtually every serious racing series. I'm not asking for F1 rules. I'm asking for ANY rules!

 

If no other game COULD adjudicate these, then I'd agree that the horse is dead, and deserves no further punishment. But when a game as new as F1 2010 (only it's second iteration, right?) can find a way to distinguish between track cutting as a result of contact and track cutting to gain time or position, at this point it begs the question... how come PD can't do this?

 

@The_Kart... so you race in real life. You EVER race a series that had NO RULES?

 

All I have ever been posting about are OPTIONS... You know, like the absurd one just added to allow all cars to be permanently ghosted. AN OPTION. PD isn't forcing us to use this. And, if PD sucked it up and coded decent penalty detection and a penalty system that reflects 90% of real life racing, it could still be offered AS AN OPTION...

 

So no-one is being forced to suddenly clean up or lose out, etc.. I really fail to understand why everyone seems so hell bent on ignoring this. All I and, I am pretty sure (despite many of them being invested in the status quo, no matter HOW hard PD make it to adjudicate a fair and clean room) most clean racers on GT5 want, is for the game 'as an option' to do a better job of stewarding a room. Bottom line is, if this was rolled into an update, the whoops and hollers would resound across almost the entire GT multiverse. Unlike the 'all ghost' option, which has left pretty much all but the most noobish utterly indifferent.

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