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Sep 03 2012
By: Destinkeys Uncharted Territory 1712 posts
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Should PD publish a standardized 'Clean Racing' definition?

154 replies 525 views Edited Sep 3, 2012

Should PD publish a standardized 'Clean Racing' definition? A set of rules that defines 'clean racing' in all languages GT5 is published in.

 

Enter 20 different 'clean' rooms, find 20 different 'clean' definitions (if anyone is bothering to define 'clean' in the first place!).

 

Surely it can't be hard for PD to publish a standardized definition that removes all debate? Call it 'GT5 clean' or whatever, if you want to distinguish it form other, perhaps stricter (or looser!) organized Leagues. But for PD to publish a racing game (forget 'driving'... that takes place on public roads, not 'racing'!) and then to completely ignore any rules whatsoever seems cowardice, or laziness of the highest degree.

 

Imagine a soccer game that allowed your center forward to pick the ball up midfield, and RUN it into the net! And the game ALLOWED the goal! You would laugh it out of the store...

 

But GT5, a game about RACING, one of the more tightly regulated sports, is allowed to be a sand-box, with ZERO game regulation. Not even so much as a printed definition, let alone in game sterwardship of any effective nature.

 

Why is this tolerated?

 

The standard of online racing would improve in leapes and bounds if players of all languages had a common set of 'clean' rules, to either abide by, or find a room that doesn't specify them. And those rules were posted in each race room, to be easily looked up and referenced.

 

Time for the center forward to use his feet, and not his hands!

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Treasure Hunter
Registered: 12/14/2008
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Re: Should PD publish a standardized 'Clean Racing' definition?

[ Edited ]
Sep 3, 2012

It's called self discipline.

PD, or anyone could "define" it all they wanted to. But it's not gonna do any good if people just do what they want anyway.

 

I'd suggest finding some nice & clean racing friends. Pretty much any of the regulars here, including myself would qualify. I don't ever go "in the wild" anymore just because of your concerns. I stick with people I know & trust to race clean & respectfully. Then you'll meet even more clean drivers, through meeting your friend's friends, and so on. Smiley Wink

 

Here is something that might be like what you're looking for:

http://community.us.playstation.com/t5/Gran-Turismo-Series-General/Discussions-on-Race-Etiquette/m-p...

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Uncharted Territory
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Re: Should PD publish a standardized 'Clean Racing' definition?

Sep 3, 2012

When I got this game a year ago I raced in open lobbies nightly, mostly Nascar at Daytona. Over time I simply got tired of the recklessness on display by so many people that I'd rather just watch Netflix or not even turn my ps3 on for days or weeks at a time. I recently signed up for a series based out of this forum here and I am really hoping to finally find a group of people that DON'T INTENTIONALLY RAM OTHER DRIVERS. I used all caps there to emphasize how bored and disgusted I am with open lobbies right now.

 

As for PD coming up with a clean racing mandate, well there should be no need - see the post above mine.

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MVP Support
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Re: Should PD publish a standardized 'Clean Racing' definition?

Sep 3, 2012

Anyone counting on getting clean racing while in open lobbies is deluding themselves.

 

There are some basic ways to find them, however:

 

1) run the event yourself and be prepared to deal with the crashers and bangers (see my host link)

2) build up your friend list with players that you trust and race them

3) join good racing leagues

 

Leagues don't need to be large. If they are active, 15-20 active drivers can give you more racing than you can possibly participate in.

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VP of Gaming
Registered: 12/08/2000
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Re: Should PD publish a standardized 'Clean Racing' definition?

Sep 3, 2012

Destinkeys wrote:

Should PD publish a standardized 'Clean Racing' definition? A set of rules that defines 'clean racing' in all languages GT5 is published in.

 

Enter 20 different 'clean' rooms, find 20 different 'clean' definitions (if anyone is bothering to define 'clean' in the first place!).

 

Surely it can't be hard for PD to publish a standardized definition that removes all debate? Call it 'GT5 clean' or whatever, if you want to distinguish it form other, perhaps stricter (or looser!) organized Leagues. But for PD to publish a racing game (forget 'driving'... that takes place on public roads, not 'racing'!) and then to completely ignore any rules whatsoever seems cowardice, or laziness of the highest degree.

 

Imagine a soccer game that allowed your center forward to pick the ball up midfield, and RUN it into the net! And the game ALLOWED the goal! You would laugh it out of the store...

 

But GT5, a game about RACING, one of the more tightly regulated sports, is allowed to be a sand-box, with ZERO game regulation. Not even so much as a printed definition, let alone in game sterwardship of any effective nature.

 

Why is this tolerated?

 

The standard of online racing would improve in leapes and bounds if players of all languages had a common set of 'clean' rules, to either abide by, or find a room that doesn't specify them. And those rules were posted in each race room, to be easily looked up and referenced.

 

Time for the center forward to use his feet, and not his hands!



Maybe if there were a soccer game like that we Americans would finally like it. Smiley Wink

 

Seriously, you can "define" all you want, unless you have people who are disciplined enough to FOLLOW those rules, it's all for nothing. Even in "clean" racing there's going to be incidents. But there's a difference between something being purely an accident, and people just being A-holes. 

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Uncharted Territory
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Re: Should PD publish a standardized 'Clean Racing' definition?

Sep 3, 2012

I think my post was more as a way to get a standardized set of rules rather than about whether rules are needed or not.

 

I run a semi-regular room called 'GTP shuff/spec' which attracts a lot of very good, very fast clean drivers simply looking for a quick 'pickup' game (I have a very irregular schedule, so joining a League is pretty much impossible), but even so, there is a LOT of internal argument over DETAILS of clean or not. How much overlap is sufficient to give the inside driver the rights to the apex, whether the overlap needs to exist at the start of the braking zone or whether it needs to be there at the turn-in point, etc..

 

Not to mention that, for almost the majority of kids that even CONSIDER themselves 'clean', as long as they don't consider themselves to have 'deliberately' driven into the back of a leading car, getting the pass after pushing the leading car out of the way is often vigorously defended as 'clean'.

 

If the game ITSELF had a standardized set of rules defining 'clean', I would not have to repeatedly, over and over, have to type out the basic rules of clean racing etiquette, and I could simply specify 'GT5 Clean' or something like that, and have it instantly understood. Whether they would OBEY it is another thing, but hosts are expected, especially in public, pickup rooms, to shoulder an enormous burden to ensure that the basic rules are even KNOWN.

 

Currently, I use the GTP OLR set of rules, somewhat slimmed down for more casual racing, but even THAT seems to be rarely read, and even more rarely followed! The game already has filters for 'Race for Fun' and 'Race for Real'. Surely, when you select a 'Race for Real' option for the room, a section that puts up these basic rules where any kid can go read them would aid hosts enormously, and remove disputes about what 'Clean Racing' actually IS..?

 

I have been, on the whole, very pleasantly surprised at how good, clean and competitive a public room can get, once everyone that joins is at least TOLD what will and will not be allowed. I think, once the kids are aware of the rules, they are often capable of adhering to them. After all, clean racing doesn't specify so much that contact NEVER happen, but more about what to do IF and WHEN it does! Once they get the point that hooning into the back of another car and pushing him sufficiently offline to squeeze past should be immediately followed by returning the position (and often losing a few more in the process!), you would be quite amazed at how many bashers start to stop doing that.

 

But the price is endless typing by the host (I rarely get an opportunity to go out on track pre-race with all the typing I have to do for each new room entrant), and a recognized, PD approved, translated (this is important as non-English speaking players join my room) set of rules would aid putting together clean rooms enormously, and remove much of the rancor as subleties (or not so subleties!) of the different interpretations of 'clean' disappear.

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Uncharted Territory
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Re: Should PD publish a standardized 'Clean Racing' definition?

Sep 3, 2012

CaptainAlbator wrote:

But there's a difference between something being purely an accident, and people just being A-holes. 


But that's exactly my point... In REAL clean racing, there is NO difference between 'accidental' contact that results in a pass, and deliberate. To the car in front, do you think there is any difference? The result is the same.

 

Most Leagues require you to return position whether you 'meant to' hit him or not. Only being hit INTO him by someone else, or the car in front spinning, hitting the wall or going into a trap and slowing suddenly is allowable contact. In other words, contact COMPLETELY out of your control.

 

As you can see, 'clean' can mean utterly different things to different people, and a standardized set seems truly needed.

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Fender Bender
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Re: Should PD publish a standardized 'Clean Racing' definition?

Sep 3, 2012

This is just my opinion, but whenever you play online you're going to encounter drivers of different skill levels.  Just because a room is "clean" doesn't mean there wont be contact.  It happens.  Rather than discouraging less skilled drivers, they should be encouraged to keep trying to avoid it.

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Uncharted Territory
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Re: Should PD publish a standardized 'Clean Racing' definition?

Sep 3, 2012
The very act of returning position is all that is needed to make a room clean. And that requires ZERO skill...

As I said, clean racing does NOT mean NO CONTACT. It means knowing what to do WHEN it occurs. If this discourages an unskilled driver, they simply aren't interested in racing clean.
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VP of Gaming
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Re: Should PD publish a standardized 'Clean Racing' definition?

Sep 4, 2012

Destinkeys wrote:
The very act of returning position is all that is needed to make a room clean. And that requires ZERO skill...

As I said, clean racing does NOT mean NO CONTACT. It means knowing what to do WHEN it occurs. If this discourages an unskilled driver, they simply aren't interested in racing clean.


That's almost impossible to enforce. Everyone is essentially on the honor system, and we all know how that works. 

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