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Fender Bender
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Re: New 'No Collisions' option...

Sep 26, 2012

nuTTTz wrote:

The point I was really trying to make has been overshadowed by the discussion about a possible teaching tool.

 

Whether it be the more serious crowd like it or not, as it's "not real", that does not take away the possibility that there are people who will use it to suit whatever purpose they find for it.

While it is not a feature we would have seen asked for here @deathstar, that doesnt mean there is no useful purpose.

 

It is one more ingredient in an already massive pile, and like the others the choice is to use it or not.

 

Having said that, going in with the preconcieved notion it is useless ensures that, that is exactly what you will find, something useless.

 

An open mind and some thought could make this a very fun feature to use for some.

Lets not forget that, the percentage of people that play this game for fun on a casual basis far outnumber the 'serious simmer' types that most of us here tend to be. 

 


I agree with you also, who knows in what ways people will use this new option.  People are pretty intuitive, if not used as a teaching method, I'm sure someone will think of a more ingenious way to implement it.

 

I think we can all agree, that while this new option isn't the most ideal, it's not game breaker either.  Right?

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Treasure Hunter
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Re: New 'No Collisions' option...

Sep 26, 2012

Lord_Beelzebub wrote:

I think we can all agree, that while this new option isn't the most ideal, it's not game breaker either.  Right?


 

Definitely not a game breaker for me. Like it's been said, I might find a use for it that suits me.

 

The game is still plenty fun for me. I always get just about any racer that is released for PS3, but somehow, I always end up back here. Smiley Very Happy

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Uncharted Territory
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Re: New 'No Collisions' option...

Sep 27, 2012

I think that other than the highly questionable use of the feature for 'teaching' a certain line (and just exactly how much of that goes on or has even been requested in any wishlist?), so far, nobody seems to have come up with any logical reason for the feature. This is what seems so odd. It is a feature no-one wanted, that solves no problem we can think of, as a response to no request we know.

 

If PD have some sort of clue about what this might actually be good for, they must be smarter than the lot of us put together..!

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Re: New 'No Collisions' option...

Sep 27, 2012

That IS certain...........

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Uncharted Territory
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Re: New 'No Collisions' option...

Sep 27, 2012

SWERV_GRIFFIN wrote:

That IS certain...........


Based on what? LOL You honestly think that a player base of millions (or at least several English speaking forums of thousands of members, which is all I have to go on) could come up with a GOOD use for this...

 

So far, not one.

 

Isn't it about time we stop giving PD a free pass on every boneheaded thing they do?

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Re: New 'No Collisions' option...

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Sep 27, 2012

Destinkeys wrote:

I think that other than the highly questionable use of the feature for 'teaching' a certain line (and just exactly how much of that goes on or has even been requested in any wishlist?), so far, nobody seems to have come up with any logical reason for the feature. This is what seems so odd. It is a feature no-one wanted, that solves no problem we can think of, as a response to no request we know.

 

If PD have some sort of clue about what this might actually be good for, they must be smarter than the lot of us put together..!



SWERV_GRIFFIN wrote:

That IS certain...........


***Though I use the posts above as a spring board, it is for the ENTIRE GT5 community, not just these two.***

 

This depends on how you define "intelligent"...

 

Yes, PD has some very smart people, but PD also has some very dumb "smart" people.

 

There's a difference between "book smart" and "street smart". PD is VERY "book smart", but PD is NOT "street smart".

 

That's why they keep doing such incredibly complex and wondrous yet incredibly useless things. That's why they keep developing complex models that are beyond the realm of intricate and detail, yet can't do simple shadows.

 

They have a great cart. Normally I'd say they have said cart before the horse...

 

But in this case, somebody done forgot to even buy a horse. Or it's one of the horses in Oz's thread that's no longer with us.

 

PD cast the crown of deity in the sand with GT5. They proved beyond doubt they are brilliant yet incredibly dense. They are not gods, if they were they would understand fundamentals ALWAYS come first, not toys, trinkets and useless apps. PD may be smart, but they sure as the hot place aren't "all that and a bag of chips". Or Crisps, depending on what side of the world you're on.

 

I had a very nice pair of rose colored glasses for a long time.

 

PD put them under the heel of their boot and made sure I never looked through them again.

 

We are what we do, and PD has done nothing to help those that fight the hardest for them while wasting countless man hours placating masses that don't exist. They have done more damage to this core group of fans than any poster has at any time with any post through simply turning a blind eye.

 

That's not opinion any longer, that's now historical fact. Time and again PD has ignored the core fan base and wasted update time and energy on useless items while leaving core game elements unfixed and leaving their greatest fans to waste their time working around their complete lack of regard for "street smarts".

 

I know you love the game SWERV, I know you love the people. But it doesn't change the facts, it doesn't change we've been sacrificed to the gods of useless apps and the photo stream.

 

Someday, maybe someone at PD understands this concept. Someday maybe they don't. Someday when they sell 30 million copies like many a 1st person shooter they can brag a little. If they wanted to, they could do that tomorrow. Instead, the rehash and redo and remake the same mistakes over and over. They remake the physics over and over. They have all the market research they ever need right here, in threads that ask for the same fixes over and over and over.

 

It's not your fault PD chooses not to pay attention. It's not your fault PD counts on you and your friends working around things so PD doesn't have to fix them, because they know we'll find ways to do what PD should do so they don't have to. But that's not the way it should be. PD is placing the burden on it's loyal fans to do the work they should be doing, and then using that time to make nigh worthless add ons to attempt to garner attention for new fans.

 

In doing this, they do themselves a great disservice. They harm themselves by doing things this way. These new fans come here with bright lights in there eyes, and should they stay longer than 5 days, find themselves faced with mountains of workarounds to do the simplest of things. They are told by countless vets "that's just how it is", and that bright light quickly fades.  PD's lure, their attempt to draw and keep that mew loyal follower is now a failure.

 

What would have become a loyal supporter like yourself now becomes a disillusioned person, angry and frustrated. He makes a post about his frustrations, he makes a post about what they think needs to be fixed, and then is jumped on by the "been there, done that, read this, that's a dead horse, oh god, not that again" band wagon... And after a brief flash of brightness, they flash across the sky like a shooting star and plummet to the earth, never to be heard from again.

 

Awhile back you mentioned this is where ideas and thoughts about GT come to die.  The reason is that after the initial item that pulled that person in, PD doesn't do anything to give them hope or reason to live. We as a community compound this with crashing down on them and "explaining" how it is.

 

From PD, it's grand visions, which quickly turn to echoes of Doug Henning..."It's an illusion..."

 

I have seen the vision. If this is truly it, someone seriously needs to visit the eye doctor.

 

I cannot in good conscience defend the actions of a company that is so blatantly ignorant and apathetic to those that love their game the most. It goes against every fiber of my being to support such apathy to those that give so much of their time and thought and energy to this forum.

 

I cannot support a company that deliberately chooses to turn away from those that hold it most dearly, and I cannot continue to support this notion it's up to us to make it happen. It's up to us to make it so. I can understand give and take. I can understand workarounds to a point.

 

I cannot understand apathy to the magnitude I am seeing here. In all honesty, PD has placed me in a position of shame.

 

I am placed in the position of explaining away their failure to hear or act. I am shamed into making workarounds to make up for the company's short sightedness and lack of understanding. I am shamed into working and doing more than any sane gamer should have just to play the game I love simply because PD refuses to take you, me and 1,000 other people posting here regularly seriously.

 

Mostly I am shamed because many of the fixes we seek are not complex. They require no more effort than any of the "features" PD is creating. The time and money being made by advertising in the game by PD from billboards and other devices is sufficient to make such changes possible.

 

If such changes were made, GT6 could then expand upon that excellence. Instead, it will merely be an overgrown extension of it. All of the addition eye candy will dazzle and sparkle for a time. But there will again come a day like today, where again the real PD emerges, where all of the holes and pitfalls and lack of care are plainly seen for what they are.

 

You can choose to stay positive, you can choose to allow PD to continue this SOP and have them continue to force you to do their grunt work so they can indulge themselves in fluff and apps and photo streams and money laundering.

 

Or you can choose to see what is plain. You can see that though your cause is just, though your heart be in the right place, the fight is not one of necessity to begin with.

 

You can see with your own eyes that PD can take away the need for this fight tomorrow if they wished. They could simply act upon the ideas, thoughts and fixes this community has held before their eyes for over a year now. They could stop developing GT6 for a few weeks and truly make an effort to make GT5 what it SHOULD be, and should have been a year ago but isn't...

 

It isn't what it should be simply because they took you and and your dedication and your positive attitude and your willingness to work around PD's failures for granted. In fact, they took the same from all of us. They took advantage of the good nature of one of the most awesome and dedicated fan bases in the history of gaming to indulge themselves in trivial pursuits. There is nothing in that where credit, honor or loyalty are deserved.

 

PD had mine. But because of these things, because they have taken all of you for granted, because they have allowed your good nature and you sacrifice and your time and your ability and your workarounds and used them as an excuse to do pointless things they have lost it.

 

I cannot ask you to give up what you love, nor would I. And truth be told, I do still love this game. But I will not have that love and loyalty toyed with, or urinated on for over a year by a company who feigns such humbleness and desire to be so much more.

 

I'm better than that, and like it or not, I am smarter than that.

 

Beyond this lies another concept.  "Collectively we are more intelligent than we are individually."

 

In that sense, as 'keys has said, we are smarter than PD.  Not just me. Not just you. Not just 'keys, or MastrGT, exXbox, OzDaddy, nuTTz, DirtyHarry44, dmcallis, jaejsteale, MATTCLK, tguns, gojet64, PKRCipriani, Crow, Numb, Dr. No, Ehollonde, MTA, TC, Gar, Lord_B, clacksman, Forgetful, SE427, any name with "tuna" in it or any other one of us. Not individually...

 

But together, all working and thinking and sorting things out...

All playing the game, creating workarounds, identifying problem areas...

Identifying things that could use some help or some love...

 

In that way... Yes.

 

We are smarter than PD. Very much more so.

 

As I have said before I will say again. PD makes many of it's own messes, and it's SOP is to tick off as few people as possible. It is not to make changes to the game that we would like to see. To those at PD, if they were to change such things it would be like admitting they didn't do something right. It would require some actual humility in admitting they are indeed human after all. It would require that they accept that they really don't have all the answers.

 

That's something few people in this world ever come to accept, whether professionally or personally. People don't like admitting they were wrong, they have an inherent sense of correctness in everything they do. One of the first steps to truly growing up and maturing as an adult is the ability to admit error, to actually accept the fact you don't know everything and you can be wrong.

 

The second step to growing up is realizing it's not the end of the world when you realize you are, or could be wrong. To pick yourself up and overcome the fear of being wrong and trying again. To apologize if necessary, to put something right, to admit the error and correct it. You and I and everyone here can notice PD does try to correct many things, yet I find it odd mostly they are things none of us have pointed out or made a big fuss about. When they do change something we've addressed they have done so in an unexpected way that doesn't really address what we brought up, or does it in some manner that makes it appear they had a solution all along, but hadn't quite perfected it yet. I believe this is why every time they fix something they break something else... Because they don't just simply address the problem, they instead make some "book smart" attempt to make the situation different so the problem doesn't appear as it did before.

 

In this sense, PD needs to grow up. They need to understand we will not think less of them for making a mistake. They really need to get that. I don't think they do. They don't understand we will instead think more of them, especially if they actually fix it right or if they simply say "yeah, we see where you are coming from, let's try this". The only time we will ever think less of them is when they don't fix it, or when they pretend it doesn't exist, or when they instead abuse the dedication of the community to overcome there errors and ignore them completely.

 

By covering for PD, as a community we are indirectly saying "it's OK if it's screwed up, we'll take care of it for you..." That is a sentiment to be admired, but it is a two edged sword. It also sends PD the message that they don't have to fix it, that because we're willing "to look at the bright side" they can look somewhere else. It gives PD an excuse NOT to address our concerns, because we're smart enough to workaround them, and are willing to put our time and energy into doing so.

 

Until such time comes as the community is unwilling to give PD a pass for the things that take up our time, waste our ability to enjoy the game, to race in ways we can relate to and regulate lobby, lounge and league racing without resorting to extreme limits or workarounds nothing will change. Until such time as the community is willing to call a spade a spade, and act in a manner that sends PD the clear message that they are doing this community a disservice, PD will not fix or change anything.

 

This has been over a year now for some of these items, some since Day 1 launch... In that time we have had many items put into updates that required just as many, if not more man hours and time than what would have been needed to fix these errors and additions and allow this game to flourish beyond anyone's expectations.

 

Instead, here we are all this time later having the same back and forth discussions over the same problems over the same changes we have all wanted for so long, and again we have the same "we have what we have", "enjoy it", "work around it", until PD does this that or something else"...

 

There is no longer any doubt where the problem lies, nor any doubt as to it's cause.

 

There is no longer any doubt where the problem truly lies, nor any doubt as to what should have been done hasn't been done.

 

If it had, we would all be singing PD's praise, and remarks like "they are smarter" would actually be true to a point.

 

I still hold an amount of respect for PD, and still believe they car capable of great things. But I no longer believe they care to achieve them as much as they say. I believe they feel so long as you blindly accept they know best, and allow them complete control of your experience you will love their product.

 

Me, I think for myself. I blindly follow no one.

 

I refuse to be a cow with a wallet.

 

If you wish to be, all the best.

 

But imagine a world where PD actually implemented some of those basic changes we've asked for for so long. Imagine how many of us would be paying the snot out of GT5 still, and not buying the other console, or buying other games, or bemoaning things that are still broken, or having discussions like these again and again and again.

 

Go ahead, you can admit it.

 

It would be quite nice, wouldn't it..?

 

Tell me you wouldn't feel so much better about the game, about the company, about the community, about the racing. Tell me your experience wouldn't be 10 times to the better than it is now with all the issues and workarounds and pain in the buttockal region stuff gone.

 

If that were so, I raise the glass with you and stand right beside you in the loyalty and pride you have in PD.  And I'd be lying if I said anything other than I wish that day was yesterday.  I want nothing more to be able to do just that.  To say I am saddened that it is PD itself that prevents me from doing so is a great sorrow is among the largest of understatements.

 

Together we are more intelligent than we are individually.

 

And to quote "RED", "there's nothing a small, but dedicated group of individuals can accomplish..."

 

(...Great movie BTW, if you've never seen it. I gave it 3 thumbs up. An 11 out of 10. How it snuck under the radar like it did amazes me, as did PUSH and The Losers. Watch them every time they come on. So much under the surface in all three...)

 

Unless they plan on releasing GT6 next week, I will not be content with the time, money, support and effort I've given PD until GT5 is made to be what it should be.

 

If PD wants my pre order of GT6, they will make it that way.

If PD wants my continued support of DLC, they will make an effort to make it that way.

 

If not, when GT6 "the final final yes this really is the last edition" comes out in the bargain bin for $20 bucks, then I'll buy it.

 

Whether PD gets $100 or more from me, or a cut of a measly $20 is entirely up to them.

 

If you're curios as to whether this is really an issue, or whether I'm alone in this sentiment, I'd encourage you to visit some other racing games forums and take a look at how many "I used to play GT" people are there now. People that never posted here, or did post quite a bit but are fed up. There are many more than you would think.

 

I have fought the good fight to the last of my strength, but I cannot continue to fight a developer with the level of apathy PD has shown.

 

The community needs to stop making excuses for Mssr Kaz and realize they are facilitating PD continuing to leave the game as is.

 

It is up to us to let PD know this is not acceptable, that our time and our efforts deserve the same respect that PD wants as the games creator, that our time and effort is no less important than those that have a company name associated with it.

 

It's time we stop excusing PD from abdicating it's responsibility to the community that has defended and supported GT5 all this time.

 

As a group, PD needs to know that the apathy shown towards the changes we have asked for over a year and a half is no longer excusable, not when so many other things that required so many man hours and so much development time was wasted on were released.

 

If you are content with crumbs from the perceived master's table, enjoy them. Savor them, love them.

 

I want to sit at the table and actually eat, not crawl around looking for table scraps in every update to perpetuate excuses.

 

My loyalty doesn't come cheap.

 

Does yours..?

 

 


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Re: New 'No Collisions' option...

Sep 27, 2012
The new collision option is a cop out by PD as it is clear they they are unable to come up with a robust system to deal with dirty drivers.

For me, I race in allot of leagues and we will only ever use this option when qualifying, especially on small tracks with big grids but still I am unsure as even in real motorsports racers do get in the way of each other when qualifying.
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Uncharted Territory
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Re: New 'No Collisions' option...

[ Edited ]
Sep 27, 2012

Remember its just and "option" you don't have to us it.

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Re: New 'No Collisions' option...

Sep 27, 2012

@ Dan_Zitions

I realize fully trhat you are disillusioned with PD. So is Destinkeys and around 30 or so more active posters at this Forum. It seems very arrogant that the 30 of us think that we speak for the masses. 8 million strong bought this game. You can minimize that accomplishment or reason it away any way that you wish. Just because it is not 30 million like some stupid , violent, and useless in my opinion shooter game does not make that any less of an impressive feat. Sure some people got mad and sold their copy later. gamers do that.

 

I am not saying that PD is perfect, or that they don't fail to do some things that the 30 loud detractors here at this Forum demand. I'm just saying that from what I've seen in my experience, Polyphony Digital's team IS smarter than anyone or ones at this Forum. I'm sure you and many other brilliant individuals will dispute that fact, but until I see proof of ANYONE here coding a game of GT 5's caliber, my opinion will remain what it is today.

 

I'm Just Sayin'.................Smiley Wink

 

Before anyone gets all up in arms over this post, please read my signature below.Smiley Very Happy

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Re: New 'No Collisions' option...

[ Edited ]
Sep 28, 2012

SWERV_GRIFFIN wrote:

@ Dan_Zitions

I realize fully trhat you are disillusioned with PD. So is Destinkeys and around 30 or so more active posters at this Forum. It seems very arrogant that the 30 of us think that we speak for the masses. 8 million strong bought this game. You can minimize that accomplishment or reason it away any way that you wish. Just because it is not 30 million like some stupid , violent, and useless in my opinion shooter game does not make that any less of an impressive feat. Sure some people got mad and sold their copy later. gamers do that.

 

I am not saying that PD is perfect, or that they don't fail to do some things that the 30 loud detractors here at this Forum demand. I'm just saying that from what I've seen in my experience, Polyphony Digital's team IS smarter than anyone or ones at this Forum. I'm sure you and many other brilliant individuals will dispute that fact, but until I see proof of ANYONE here coding a game of GT 5's caliber, my opinion will remain what it is today.

 

I'm Just Sayin'.................Smiley Wink

 

Before anyone gets all up in arms over this post, please read my signature below.Smiley Very Happy


I suffer no such "disillusion" of anything.

 

Give me PD's budget and I'll do exactly what you ask.

 

It has nothing to do with me being smarter than anyone.

 

It's not just "30 or so" of us. It's hundreds on other forums. It's hundreds on competitor's games forums. It's a constant steady stream of people that are leaving the world of GT and going elsewhere.

 

I'm not "just sayin'" either. I'm not focusing on being personal, making you look foolish, attempting to appear superior or accosting you because you dared to think instead of point a finger and mindlessly quote the status quo.

 

I love this game, but I don't love the direction it's going.

 

I don't blindly accept "PD knows all". I'll take the 30 people you mention and PD's budget and GT will be a thing of the past, along with 4za and it's new kid sister.

 

Not because I'm smart, or that I'm anything special. 

 

I'm nothing other than someone who's willing to question, willing to ask, willing to listen when people say something and will to respond to what they say.

 

Would it be an easy task...? No.

Would it take some time to do...? Certainly.

 

But I'll take the army of minds and ideas over the single man any day of the week.

I'll take the team work and multiple angles and points of view over the single minded approach any where at any time.

I'll take a structured team environment that responds to customer input over a closed company making "updates" with "features" like the last few in a heartbeat.

 

I'm not easily amused. I'm not easily won over with eye candy.

I like substance, I like more than a "hey, this really IS a small box" challenge.

I like simple, well thought out interfaces with real options, not make believe "hey you better not be cheating because we'll see it later on in the 3 hours we have to look at replays just to make sure you didn't because we can see your tach redline is 100 rpms too high".

 

I didn't post what I did to have people point and poke and prod and pretend.

 

I posted it for the other thousand or so forum members that actually stop and think about things.

 

It's the 21st century and we're sending suggestions to PD by telegraph...

 

I'm not going to apologize for wanting to tell the world "hey, there's a new invention, it's called a phone..."

Mock me all you want. If you think your comments will make this game or this forum better, make more.

Heck, I'll make them with you if it gets the job done. But it doesn't...

 

I'm interested in the people of this community that want to be able to seriously communicate with PD on a real, meaningful and purposeful level, where the concepts behind the ideas so many in this community, even yourself, have asked for countless times for over a year now can actually be explained, so they can be implemented in ways that are actually useful to us all.

 

I'm not talking about opening the floodgates to every stupid idea box suggestion to find it's way into the bottom of the box.

 

I'm talking about the ones that the majority of us have begged for for ages that go unheeded as update after update after update goes by.

 

And while that's happening, useless "new features" are created, duplicate DLC is created. Billboards on tracks for advertising are created.

 

Sit and be smug and joke if you like. Pretend that 8 million copies is really something. It isn't. GT5 could have doubled that if they made things easier to work with, if they gave us a few real options, if they opened up the game just a little, if they stopped wasting time with spinning cars and spinning drivers in fancy little suits (even though I like those) and cut scenes and pointless "features" and museum cards I can't delete even if I want to.

 

How many leagues would be running if it weren't for having to spend countless hours trying to keep things within limits..?

How much more diversified could the racing be with some simple controls to eliminate cheating, and all the time wasted policing it..?

How many different kinds of racing could be explored if it were made impossible to cheat..?

How much more would people get involved if they could have the control to set a lounge or a lobby up properly..?

 

How many of you would buy up tracks, wheel sets, tire sets with company logos or for specific series like the ALMS or the DTM..?

How many of you would jump at the chance to really do a proper race car from any car, standard or premium..?

And just how many GTR's are there anyway...?  

 

I focus on the game, not on cutting people down for making a serious post.

I focus on the community, on trying to get people to work together to effect positive change.

I focus on letting people and PD know there are issues that need to be dealt with.

I'm not content to play the fool and pretend everything is OK fine.

I'm not interested in people who have nothing to contribute but insult.

 

GT5 isn't just playtime with a few friends to me.


I like that I can do that, but it's not the ONLY reason I want this game.

 

And face it. You and I both know PD is better than this.

 

We all do.

 

If we didn't, not a D$#@ one of us would ever post a single blessed thing here other than "wee, fun...!"

 

If you fully realized anything, you'd understand your precious GT is in trouble. The market aint what it used to be. Every day I see more and more people on my friend's list playing something else. Every day I read another tale of woe in another forum, read another person who's left GT and come to the other side and how much they love it, there's so much to do... Every week another one of us leaves to go SIM racing on PC. How long until there's no one here who still cares at all..? How long until it's 7 guys reminiscing about the prologue days..?

 

If it weren't for the online relationships, which is all many seem to care about now, where would GT5 be...?

 

The tumble weeds are already starting to blow through this place.

 

And I hate it.

 

I hate it because it didn't have to get this way.

 

It didn't have to be a year plus down the road to get like this, it could have been fixed long ago.

 

But it wasn't. And it still isn't.

 

Why should I believe GT6 is going to be any different...?

 

___

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