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Apr 20 2013
By: jaejsteele Gaming Beast 1665 posts
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High Wire

102 replies 500 views Edited Apr 20, 2013

Anyone know whatever happened to the GM Highwire ? In the early 2000s' it seemed to be one of the best new ideas to advance vehicle technology, so what happened. Fuel cells, interchangeable body styles on an 11" chassis, claims that it ran on seawater. I saw it on Top Gear and it refreshed my memory but searches don't turn up anything recent. Did it come to a tragic end or get swept under the carpet of big oil. I figured one of you guys might know, thanks.

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VP of Gaming
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Re: High Wire

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Apr 20, 2013

Good question actually. I've poked around the net, there isn't a clear answer. Most likely GM killed it right along with the EV-1, as soon as SUV's took off.

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Gaming Beast
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Re: High Wire

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Apr 21, 2013

I can't say authoritatively, except to note that while fuel cells may be the future, they still haven't overcome short operational lifespans for the cells and problems in varied weather conditions (cold operating conditions,  for instance is a big problem for hydrogen fuel cells) . But just on replacement cost, and aside from say, not having the car run in sub-zero weather, a new ~$10K fuel cell every two or three years is quite a damper for sale to people outside the realm of the "very few".

 

It *is a cool concept though.

 

- There's a distinct difference between slow & deliberate and deliberately slow -
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VP of Gaming
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Re: High Wire

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Apr 21, 2013

anjen wrote:

I can't say authoritatively, except to note that while fuel cells may be the future, they still haven't overcome short operational lifespans for the cells and problems in varied weather conditions (cold operating conditions,  for instance is a big problem for hydrogen fuel cells) . But just on replacement cost, and aside from say, not having the car run in sub-zero weather, a new ~$10K fuel cell every two or three years is quite a damper for sale to people outside the realm of the "very few".

 

It *is a cool concept though.

 


Toyota has overcome that problem.

 

Toyota Tests H2 fuel cell in cold weather.

 

 

“Cold start and driving performance of the TOYOTA FCHV-adv was verified to be equivalent to gasoline-ICE vehicles.”

 


Tests also by the Scandanavian Hydrogen Highway Partnership, showed that the cold weather had no impact on fuel cells. 

 

 

 Fuel cells in Scandanavia defied the winter.

 


The first results of fuel cell vehicle testing in Scandinavia during the past winter have shown a very satisfying reliability with no impact of the cold weather.In six months fuel cell vehicles from Daimler, Hyundai and Th!nk drove 62,500 kilometres in Norway and Denmark and fuelled 750 kg of hydrogen at refuelling stations in the two countries. The vehicles were driven by regular users for both short and long drives and at temperatures down to below minus twenty degrees. Refuelling times were consistently below 4 minutes for a full tank of up to 500 kilometres and at a cost of driving comparable to gasoline.

 


Neither long term parking nor operation at temperatures below minus twenty degrees showed any effect on the fuel cell systems during the winter period.

 


That's minus twenty degrees celsius, Which is -4 degrees farehiet. Here in the North East, we rarely get down to that tempurature, as does much of the country. 


So now it's fighting public misonceptions along with misinformation that seems to perpetuate itself. The other problem you have to try to overcome is ego. A lot of Americans egos won't allow them to drive something fuel effcient, and something about the size of a Ford Focus. I hear the excuses all the time. "I need more room to stretch out". You're DRIVING. You don't need to stretch anywhere. "Small cars unsafe". There's more safety features in cars than there are SUV's, because anything over 6,000lbs. in the US is classified as a "light truck". I could go on, but it's a battle that will take a generational change.

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Treasure Hunter
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Re: High Wire

Apr 21, 2013
The first and biggest challenge that will have to be overcome in my mind is that it takes a hydrocarbon to get the hydrogen, which means that they burn fuel to make fuel. Kind of counter productive in my mind.......

Sounds neat on the one side, stupidly inefficient on the other.
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Re: High Wire

Apr 21, 2013

TRLWNC wrote:
The first and biggest challenge that will have to be overcome in my mind is that it takes a hydrocarbon to get the hydrogen, which means that they burn fuel to make fuel. Kind of counter productive in my mind.......

Sounds neat on the one side, stupidly inefficient on the other.

We're already burning oil to get oil out of the ground. And we're burning oil to refine it, transport it, and finally to provide electricity to pump it, and then ultimately burn it in our cars.

 

Scientists don't think like "gamers". They don't ever say "IT'S ONE WAY AND THAT'S IT!! IT CAN'T BE ANYWAY ELSE!!". They are always doing more research and finding new ways to do things. New technology is being developed all the time. It may take a few years, but there may very well be a way to isolate hydrogen in near future that is more efficient.

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Treasure Hunter
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Re: High Wire

Apr 21, 2013
If you are right, that is fine. And, honestly, I hope you are. I just haven't heard about it and I distrust anything that says it is more efficient.

After all, if we put a semi on the road in CA and send it to NY, it won't burn the entire tank it's pulling..... Something that I see being required when we "alter" hydrocarbons into carbon and hydrogen.

We may find better ways to alter, but unless it doesn't use fuel for somewhere else,......

Oh, well. I don't keep up with stuff like that, so who knows... ?
If you are a Christian, copy and paste this in your sig. In life, and especially as a Christian, in order to finish first, you must first finish. What's YOUR first place? donoharm.us #sharethegift #peaceispossible #BecauseHeLives #Hallelujah

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Fender Bender
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Re: High Wire

Apr 21, 2013

TRLWNC wrote:
The first and biggest challenge that will have to be overcome in my mind is that it takes a hydrocarbon to get the hydrogen, which means that they burn fuel to make fuel. Kind of counter productive in my mind.......

Sounds neat on the one side, stupidly inefficient on the other.

That is a fault in how our electricity is generated, not the hydrogen fuel itself.

As wind and solar farms become more prevelant more and more of the needed hydrogen can be converted from water by green energy.

 

We currently run the very same system with gas and oil. Massive amounts of fuel are consumed producing, refining and delivering petrolium and thier sub products.

At least with hydrogen, even if it is created using dirty energy the waste out is totally clean, unlike fossil fuels.



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Fender Bender
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Re: High Wire

Apr 21, 2013

TRLWNC wrote:
If you are right, that is fine. And, honestly, I hope you are. I just haven't heard about it and I distrust anything that says it is more efficient.

After all, if we put a semi on the road in CA and send it to NY, it won't burn the entire tank it's pulling..... Something that I see being required when we "alter" hydrocarbons into carbon and hydrogen.

We may find better ways to alter, but unless it doesn't use fuel for somewhere else,......

Oh, well. I don't keep up with stuff like that, so who knows... ?

That itself is the real benefit of hydrogen fuel, there is no alteration needed.

Water, H20, is a super simple molucule, 2 hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom, thats it. By passing electricity through water, the bond between the two types of atoms is broken, the oxygen congregates around one terminal, the hydrogen around the other (cant remember which goes to positive and which to negative).

The only by product of separating water to capture hydrogen is pure oxygen, also a useful gas.

 

Using hydrogen as fuel only produces one exhast component, water. Thats all that comes out of the tailpipe of a hydrogen powered car, even if the fuel is combusted instead of processed through a fuel cell.

 

If we used hydrogen created through green energy as the only fuel source on earth we could power 50 billion cars and trucks and not hurt the planet whatsoever.

 

 



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Gaming Beast
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Re: High Wire

Apr 21, 2013

Well, Honda is working on a small electric car with an interchangeable body.

 

http://world.honda.com/news/2012/4121113Micro-EV-Commuter-Prototype/index.html

 

And Jeremy Clarkson said no one was trying to make a P45-like small car... Smiley Wink

 

Top Gear Trivia: Clarkson called the car the P45 because it was shorter (length) and narrower than a Peel P50. The Peel P50 was named because of its 50cc engine. However, the Top Gear P45 has a 100cc engine, making the name technically incorrect.

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