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Re: Gt5 vs. forza 4 the differents in companies when it comes to muscle cars to me

Oct 5, 2012

MastrGT wrote:

To me, the differences between FORZA & GT are immaterial compared to what will happen when both sims meet real competition soon on their own home turf.

 

You see, consoles, in general, are an impediment to game development. They have been for quite a while. Their upfront costs and closed environments do nothing today to improve the gaming world. With Steam and now GameMaker: Studio on it, open platforms are where developers are focused. This is what makes pCARS so threatening to both GT and it's ilk. Here is a new startup using modern financing, and a different development model, and much more open communication, to come into this isolated genre and rock the boat. Next year will be really interesting.

 

Since GT is such an important part of SONY, PD is really going to have to step up its game, so to speak, if it wants to help retain console players, let alone GT's fans. One saving grace will be our console's ability to interface with a growing number of good wheels, but that will only get them so far and there are so many other challenges that need to be met full on that never existed before.

 

Consoles are under mounting pressure, so future models will be under cost pressures like never before because gamers will have more options to play elsewhere that have more open development and cost less to be entertained by them, and have more competing options even in the livingroom.

 

So PD doesn't need to worry about just what cars a FORZA has as much as what other things will affect them over the next ten years. PD has to make GT so appealing overall, and soon, that we can't look elsewhere.

 


You had to bring up Steam didn't you? Steam is not a so much as an "open platform", but a way for Valve and Gabe Newell to prevent games from being sold on other download services. Once a game has Steamworks built into it, it essentially needs Steam to run, and closes it off from being sold by other digital retailers. 

 

I've often found it a bit odd that many "gamers" swear by Steam, when it's actually anti-competitive, and anti-consumer. If you don't like a game, once you install it and activate it on Steam, that's it, you're stuck with it. Furthermore, the practice of bundling a piece of software and then compelling people to use it was deemed to be illeagal by the U.S. Supreme Court in The United States vs. Microsoft, a company that Gabe Newell used to work for. Yet for some reason, gamers consider Valve to be "swell guys", because they get "deals" on ten year old games for about $5 each. 

 

As for PC's, despite what the PC gaming associations that keep popping up tell you, I would have to disagree with most of you when you say that PC gaming is a threat to consoles. People want SIMPLE. Come home from the store, set up, start playing. The thing that really is killing PC gaming is the constant upgrades, and having to spend exorbatant amounts of money on hardware. About five years ago I spend $650 on a PC from Dell and tried to play Battlefield 2 on it. The game wouldn't run for more than five minutes without crashing. The "advice" I got was to upgrade the power supply and video card. The power supply was going to cost about a hundred bucks, and the video card they "recommended" was about another $150. Despite what you may think of Dell as a company or their products, despite spending $650 I had to spend ANOTHER $250 to upgrade a machine that was less than two months old, all so I could play a ten dollar game? I for one do not want to participate in this PC gamers arms race, I have better things to spend my money on. That's the convenience of consoles. You spend money ONCE, and that's it. 

 

As for pCARS, I'd hardly call Slightly Mad Studios a "startup". They made two Shift games, and there are a few former SimBin team members who developed GT Legends, GTR 2 and GTR. They have experience in this field, and I've been enjoying those games for a few years now. 

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Re: Gt5 vs. forza 4 the differents in companies when it comes to muscle cars to me

Oct 5, 2012

GT always lost a few players to external sims, though, especially PC sims, but just like ToCA was in its day, pCARS is a credible threat on their home turf. When we were about to get an off-line GT4, we turned to the only on-line alternative until GTT5P came out. We had a good run for one and a half years, too. Not perfect, but credible enough.

 

There are a lot of eyes on pCARS right now and not just those of GT fans.

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Re: Gt5 vs. forza 4 the differents in companies when it comes to muscle cars to me

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Oct 5, 2012

I wrote a bunch of stuff here then for some reason the forum ignored everything I wrote and quoted two other people, not sure if somethings messed with the forum but that post sure didn't work.

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Re: Gt5 vs. forza 4 the differents in companies when it comes to muscle cars to me

Oct 6, 2012

buddyfreakind,  I've been playing the pCARS builds for months now.  If you have any questions, feel free to ask.  There's a thread in Racing General here - http://community.us.playstation.com/t5/Racing-General/Project-C-A-R-S-for-PS3/m-p/37716549#U37716549   Even though it's only on PC at this point, it is coming to PS3 so I assume it's ok to talk about the game here.

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Re: Gt5 vs. forza 4 the differents in companies when it comes to muscle cars to me

Oct 6, 2012

I've enjoyed reading about this topic, thanks everyone.  I kept thinking of Moore's law and it's relevance here, eventually the console, PC, and all other electronics are going to have to A) get bigger to contain more, B) come up with something better than silicone, C) share information across platforms. Yes there's chip stacking, but as we all know, heat has always been a problem with consoles which leads us back to A. 

Personally I think they will expand upon the media center aspect of the current system and take advantage of C, in which case you might be able to seamlessly play PC games on your TV via the new console. It's a race to the screen in front of your couch, and Sony won't let PD hold them back. Regardless of the outcome it should be an exciting time as they all compete for relevance.

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Re: Gt5 vs. forza 4 the differents in companies when it comes to muscle cars to me

Oct 6, 2012

CaptainAlbator wrote:

You had to bring up Steam didn't you? Steam is not a so much as an "open platform", but a way for Valve and Gabe Newell to prevent games from being sold on other download services.

...

As for pCARS, I'd hardly call Slightly Mad Studios a "startup". They made two Shift games, and there are a few former SimBin team members who developed GT Legends, GTR 2 and GTR. They have experience in this field, and I've been enjoying those games for a few years now. 


 I only mentioned Steam because GameMaker Studio is on it now, and Studio is a way for developers to enter the field without jumping a lot of expensive hurdles. It shows how the world has changed, even if they don't support consoles.

 

OK, so Slightly Mad is now a newer company, out from under EA's wing away from Shift, and with new investors, and a new game plan. They are definitely a challenger to the status quo.

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Re: Gt5 vs. forza 4 the differents in companies when it comes to muscle cars to me

Oct 6, 2012

After playing PCars for the last 5 hours straight, I've came to the conclusion that it's going to be awsome.  Needs work, but  that's expected, not finished yet.  Steering feels like simbin controls and ffb, plus brake chatter through the steering wheel.  It's going to definately be competition for console sim racing games, arcade racers will hate it though.   

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Re: Gt5 vs. forza 4 the differents in companies when it comes to muscle cars to me

Oct 6, 2012

jaejsteele wrote:

I've enjoyed reading about this topic, thanks everyone.  I kept thinking of Moore's law and it's relevance here, eventually the console, PC, and all other electronics are going to have to A) get bigger to contain more, B) come up with something better than silicone, C) share information across platforms. Yes there's chip stacking, but as we all know, heat has always been a problem with consoles which leads us back to A. 

Personally I think they will expand upon the media center aspect of the current system and take advantage of C, in which case you might be able to seamlessly play PC games on your TV via the new console.

 

It's a race to the screen in front of your couch, and Sony won't let PD hold them back.

 

Regardless of the outcome it should be an exciting time as they all compete for relevance.


That, my dear friends is the definition of brilliant. Smiley Wink

 

But it's not just the big TV at home anymore.

 

It's the race to find the perfect blend to have that content with you wherever you go.

 

Not just to make it accessible, but to use it as a tracking platform to keep you hooked.

 

Look at the way a teenage girl uses her phone. The only other time you see behavior and obsession like that is when someone is obsessive compulsive or hooked on drugs or alcohol. This technological bent we're on is as addictive as any drug ever made, and the last thing the "pushers" want is for you to quit cold turkey.

 

Consider Captain's Steam analogy... He's dead on about Steam being used to force a captive audience, game companies have to make updates that incorporate the steam platform, they can't just release an update interdependently. Stardock did the same with Impulse, which was so effective at not only allowing easy updating and game tracking, but in keeping customers tied up to it that Game Stop bought the thing hook, line and sinker. It's now the "Game Stop App".

 

I Racing is another example of a captive audience platform. Unlike it's competitors however, they have sunk a tremendous amount of time, energy and money into constantly developing and adding new experiences for it's players. When it started, there were many who doubted it was going to go very far, but it's becoming one of the preeminent racing experiences there is, and as hardware and data transfer continues to grow, as long as they keep the level of attention they have, it will only get better.

 

pCARS has this same potential. The way they're doing things is quite revolutionary. While I don't feel the urge to go and pay to help develop it quite yet, just from what's available now build, car, track and game play wise it's already surpassed many finished titles in it's play and abilities. And it's only going to get better.

 

Every day that goes by I get closer to running that HDMI cable from my video card to the big screen... The choices available compared to the suffering of trying to ask PD to make GT5 function a little better with simple fixes is started out as a difficult choice to make, but as time goes on, PD is making it easier and easier to make it.

 

Wyld's wanting of LAN play, of using a PC as a network host is another instance where PD could separate themselves from the console limitation while still maintaining it's PS3 identity.

 

Consoles can survive, but the games that don't open them selves up or place unnecessary burden or restriction on play will suffer.


When given the choice of being able to LAN 16 players with no lag vs the "notwork", being able to define your identity through paint or customization of game experience by way of options to being allowed to set rooms with specifics to create enjoyable racing atmospheres verses the constrictive, rigid place we find ourselves in now... A rigid GT5 experience will lose every time.

 

As many have pointed out, and many have spoken about... The times they are a changin.

 

Though with as much as he smoked, I often wonder if Mr. Dylan even noticed... Smiley LOL

 

___

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Re: Gt5 vs. forza 4 the differents in companies when it comes to muscle cars to me

Oct 6, 2012

MastrGT wrote:

OK, so Slightly Mad is now a newer company, out from under EA's wing away from Shift, and with new investors, and a new game plan. They are definitely a challenger to the status quo.


This is why it matters... And why the game will actually be good. And right, not full of bugs and useless garbage.

 

That little statement makes all the difference in the world when it comes to games...

 

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Re: Gt5 vs. forza 4 the differents in companies when it comes to muscle cars to me

Oct 6, 2012

PD never required a PC to LAN GT before. We just used Ethernet switches (GT4) or Firewire hubs (GT3).

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