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Uncharted Territory
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Re: Granturismo:ILLEGAL STREET RACE

Nov 19, 2012

Sorry, perhaps I wasn't clear enough. I am not talking about other games licensing PD's handling model (not quite sure how you arrived at this). Simply that, each game, those that DO want to model realistic handling get better and better.

 

All it is going to take is PD's competitors to take a step forward, and much of PD's superiority is gone.

 

So, instead of waiting for this, why not leverage the ONE advantage you have, and provide competition to THEM, instead of waiting for them to compete with YOU?

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Re: Granturismo:ILLEGAL STREET RACE

Nov 19, 2012

i wish the fictional street courses wernt Race modified with barriers and such but w/e there much more imporant things for PD too do

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of carbon monoxide


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Re: Granturismo:ILLEGAL STREET RACE

[ Edited ]
Nov 19, 2012

Destinkeys wrote:

Sorry, perhaps I wasn't clear enough. I am not talking about other games licensing PD's handling model (not quite sure how you arrived at this). Simply that, each game, those that DO want to model realistic handling get better and better.


Through this... [edit] and some help from the OP.

 


Destinkeys wrote:

 

I believe that PD are missing an obvious opportunity here. Sure, you don't want GTA or Hot Pursuit rolled INTO GT6, but how about GT6's physics rolled into NEW games that leverage their handling model..?

 

The thing is, if PD don't do it, sooner or later, their competition WILL.


 

 PD has enough trouble getting one title out, so adding more work to their load probably is not a great idea.

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Re: Granturismo:ILLEGAL STREET RACE

Nov 19, 2012

Destinkeys wrote:

I think what threads like this are all about is the recognition that PD's physics model is quite possibly the best in a console game. Many of us WOULD like to see games similar to what other studios put out, but with the realistic physics that PD achieve.

(So let them develop those games on their own.)

 

I believe that PD are missing an obvious opportunity here. Sure, you don't want GTA or Hot Pursuit rolled INTO GT6, but how about GT6's physics rolled into NEW games that leverage their handling model..?

(Again, if a company wanted to replicate those types of physics, they will do it ON THEIR OWN). 

 

The thing is, if PD don't do it, sooner or later, their competition WILL. TBH, each iteration by other studios gets closer and closer to what PD can achieve vis a vis realistic handling. In many ways, on many racing games, these other studios already beat GT5 in many practical gameplay and realism categories. But PD keep their nose out in front solely because of the handling model. The problem with this though, is that it is a one trick pony approach. All it takes is one or two competitors equaling (let us not even imagine bettering it, the horror!) this handling model, and PD find themselves in a lot of hot water. With the edge these other games have at making racing, drifting and just plain DRIVING a lot more FUN than PD do, add in decent handling, and who is going to want to play GT games?

(Okay, let me see if I get this straight; it would be bad if the "competition" developed such a game, but it would be okay if Polyphony Digital were swell guys and provide them with the where-with-all to make that game? That's an enormous contradiction0

 

I don't really see the reason for the horror that some are showing at the thought that PD might bring out a GTA or HP style game... By the same logic that they go 'If you want to play games of this ilk, go play the games that already do it', if PD brought out these kind of games (but made them SO much better by not including awful arcade handling models), one would simply need to say 'If you don't like PD's combat-style games, don't play them!'.

(If Polyphony Digital wants to make those games, then they will. It's a free market. They can make whatever game they want. They shouldn't make them because "it would totally be totally awesome if totally they totally made a totally Hot-totally-Pursuit totally game because I totally want totally every totally game to totally be totally the same... totally". This idea that they have to make these games because you want to play them because A) you already like them and want to play the same games as the other companies make, only with the PD logo on them, and B) you somehow feel that if everyone makes the same games you won't have to decide whether or not you like, because it's the same and you know you will, is not the way to run a business. They make great automotive games, they need to play to their strengths in that. And the Japanese don't particularly like Grand Theft Auto or Hot Pursuit style games. Why make a game that doesn't appeal to their home market?)

 

But, one way or the other, PD need to realize that the competition keeps inching closer. Were it not for the handling, there are already several racing games that seriously beat PD at many aspects of the racing experience. If the handling is the ONLY real edge that PD maintain, it's going to be 'Game Over' if anyone ever manages to equal PD in this one gameplay factor unless PD start to develop games that equal THEM in their strengths...

 

(You haven't said it yet, but I have the distinct feeling that this all comes down to the inferiority complex of "but... but... but... Forza!". Despite Forza, which quite frankly feels like driver's ed, Gran Turismo 5 continues to sell in the multi-miillion. So the "competition" hasn't quite put a dent in their luster just yet. So I doubt that it will be "game over" for anything, other than this discussion. 


 

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Re: Granturismo:ILLEGAL STREET RACE

Nov 20, 2012

I couldn't be less interested in a new title! I'll stick with a game that is well designed and can challenge me to be a better driver.

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Re: Granturismo:ILLEGAL STREET RACE

Nov 20, 2012

OK... now I see.

 

I should have said GT6-STYLE physics. In other words, realistically modeled handling.

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Re: Granturismo:ILLEGAL STREET RACE

Nov 20, 2012

CaptainAlbator wrote:

Destinkeys wrote:

I think what threads like this are all about is the recognition that PD's physics model is quite possibly the best in a console game. Many of us WOULD like to see games similar to what other studios put out, but with the realistic physics that PD achieve.

(So let them develop those games on their own.)

 

Or let PD develop them. Surely greater profits mean a stronger PD, which means better funded, hence faster release cycle, games for ALL of us

 

I believe that PD are missing an obvious opportunity here. Sure, you don't want GTA or Hot Pursuit rolled INTO GT6, but how about GT6's physics rolled into NEW games that leverage their handling model..?

(Again, if a company wanted to replicate those types of physics, they will do it ON THEIR OWN). 

 

They ARE doing it on their own! Every year, they keep inching closer. I'm talking about PD using GT5/6 tire/physics model to take the fight to them. And I'm talking about GTA or HP -'type' games, not the actual game. Lord, sometimes you guys can be so literal!

 

The thing is, if PD don't do it, sooner or later, their competition WILL. TBH, each iteration by other studios gets closer and closer to what PD can achieve vis a vis realistic handling. In many ways, on many racing games, these other studios already beat GT5 in many practical gameplay and realism categories. But PD keep their nose out in front solely because of the handling model. The problem with this though, is that it is a one trick pony approach. All it takes is one or two competitors equaling (let us not even imagine bettering it, the horror!) this handling model, and PD find themselves in a lot of hot water. With the edge these other games have at making racing, drifting and just plain DRIVING a lot more FUN than PD do, add in decent handling, and who is going to want to play GT games?

(Okay, let me see if I get this straight; it would be bad if the "competition" developed such a game, but it would be okay if Polyphony Digital were swell guys and provide them with the where-with-all to make that game? That's an enormous contradiction0

 

Not EVEN literalism, here. No mention whatsoever of PD being the provider of said handling, just that the competition keeps getting closer. No-one seriously thinks that PD would license out their tire/physics model...

 

I don't really see the reason for the horror that some are showing at the thought that PD might bring out a GTA or HP style game... By the same logic that they go 'If you want to play games of this ilk, go play the games that already do it', if PD brought out these kind of games (but made them SO much better by not including awful arcade handling models), one would simply need to say 'If you don't like PD's combat-style games, don't play them!'.

(If Polyphony Digital wants to make those games, then they will. It's a free market. They can make whatever game they want. They shouldn't make them because "it would totally be totally awesome if totally they totally made a totally Hot-totally-Pursuit totally game because I totally want totally every totally game to totally be totally the same... totally". This idea that they have to make these games because you want to play them because A) you already like them and want to play the same games as the other companies make, only with the PD logo on them, and B) you somehow feel that if everyone makes the same games you won't have to decide whether or not you like, because it's the same and you know you will, is not the way to run a business. They make great automotive games, they need to play to their strengths in that. And the Japanese don't particularly like Grand Theft Auto or Hot Pursuit style games. Why make a game that doesn't appeal to their home market?)

 

Is the Japanese market their MAIN market? Perhaps addressing that would be good business sense, too? But you got one thing right. PD can make whatever game they want. And people can ask PD for whatever game they want. And if the players of the current game don't like the idea, well, it's not really any of their business. No-one has even SUGGESTED that PD stop making what they already are making, so how does it affect you at all?

 

But, one way or the other, PD need to realize that the competition keeps inching closer. Were it not for the handling, there are already several racing games that seriously beat PD at many aspects of the racing experience. If the handling is the ONLY real edge that PD maintain, it's going to be 'Game Over' if anyone ever manages to equal PD in this one gameplay factor unless PD start to develop games that equal THEM in their strengths...

 

(You haven't said it yet, but I have the distinct feeling that this all comes down to the inferiority complex of "but... but... but... Forza!". Despite Forza, which quite frankly feels like driver's ed, Gran Turismo 5 continues to sell in the multi-miillion. So the "competition" hasn't quite put a dent in their luster just yet. So I doubt that it will be "game over" for anything, other than this discussion. 

 

Actually, no. Got NOTHING to do with Forza. Once again reading between the lines (incorrectly), then responding as if those lines were written. Try actually reading the LINES, not the space between them. IF (got it?) PD's competition closes the gap, what then? That handling model is the ONE serious edge PD still holds. Lose that, and all the other racing elements that are missing from GT5 but get excused because GT's handling is still out in front start to come into play.

 

I simply feel that, as the OP and many others that drive more than traditional track racing games have posted here and other forums many times, if an open world driving game were made, why NOT by PD? It's the handling model that distinguishes PD's efforts. Mate that handling model to other types of driving games, and how would that affect Gran Turismo at all? Personally, given how boring PD manage to make simple track based racing (despite the sublime handling). I don't think it would hurt PD to reconnect with the FUN aspects of racing!


 


 

 

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Re: Granturismo:ILLEGAL STREET RACE

[ Edited ]
Nov 20, 2012

Vive la difference.

When I watch TV I don't want to watch the same type of shows all the time written by the same team of writers. 

Same idea with games.   Part of the fun of playing other games comes from them being different, enjoying them for what they are.  If you like them play them.

Besides PD style physics and tuning would just be irrelevant and pointless is some of the other games.  For example in the lastest NSF MW game you are subject to aggresive attacks from the AI racers, AI police, other drivers, random cars appearing from side streets and then you have to crash through security gates and billboards.  I seriously doubt that anybody playing that game in the aftermath of a crash or flying through a billboard, has ever said to themselves, gee if only I could fiddle with the diff settings or adjust the camber and toe, I might have really crushed that billboard.

Different games, different premises, different intent, different fun.




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Re: Granturismo:ILLEGAL STREET RACE

Nov 21, 2012

AFAIK, you can still tune and upgrade your cars in NFS. In fact, doing that may well give you the edge to help avoid those pursuers, and set up for a crash better.

 

When you are playing car based games, what exactly is WRONG with a better handling model? You know, there seems to be quite a double standard with PD... Mention any other game, point out some of its strengths compared to GT5, and the first thing you'll hear is 'But it's got arcade handling!', which is why they don't like it or play it. But what would you do IF it did have decent (realistic) handling? There goes your objection...

 

So why NOT have PD enter those fields, and provide games that, on the one hand are a lot more FUN (remember fun?) than endlessly hotlapping your vacuum cleaner round the 'Ring to shave a thou off, but still don't compromise on the physics..? The upside for GT5 players might be that we FINALLY get a decent crash physics and damage modeling!

 

The sad fact is, the vast majority of public GT5 rooms are little better than a Hot Pursuit game. Kids bashing into kids (and a lot of grown-ups doing it too) with no regard for any track racing rules. I honestly think, if PD married GT5 physics with a game that actually legitimizes what the darling little thugs are already doing, they'd have a winner!

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Re: Granturismo:ILLEGAL STREET RACE

Nov 21, 2012

I have actually played the Most Wanted game I was referring to and yes you can upgrade, in fact you can't win some races if you don't, but you can't tune.  It's not needed.  I was addressing the topic of the thread "illegal street race".  But thanks for the advice, and as usual you are missing the point and creating an argument that wasn't there.

I never said anything was wrong with a better handling model, just that the games are different and sometimes better handling models are not the priority and necessity they are in other games.   You can have fun without it.   Just an opinion.

All I was saying was the games are different (not inferior).  Different is good and fun.

 

 




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