Reply
May 15 2009
By: ForgetfuI Umbrella Scientist 12271 posts
Offline

Discussions on Race Etiquette.

422 replies 457 views Edited May 15, 2009

 

Below, I've gathered some great threads that foucs on racing Etiquette. Have a read thru to get a good idea of what your fellow forum members define as good clean driving. 

 

 

 

 

 

PATIENCE - A great post by lBloom that spurned a great converstation on good all around driving habits. Well worth the read!


Jayz606 wrote:
... Breath bud, breath. You could yell all day at these guys till you're blue in the face and you won't get anywhere. Long ago I came to the conclusion that winning or even placing doesn't matter to me. To me, this game is like finding a diamond in a coal mine - For all the crap that a guy has to dig through it still makes you feel good when you find something that shines. For as many bad races as I've had, there a quite a few that were amazing and there isn't one single guy that could ruin the overall experience badly enough to make me sit it out. Right now is the time when lines in the sand are being drawn and what a good chunk of these people don't realize is that it won't be long before they're left out in the cold because of their disrespect towards others. I suspect what you'll see is many of the "Ram-Champs" will suddenly be faced with only having the option of racing guys just as bad if not worse than themselves. At that point, when their own medicine comes back into play, they will suddenly have the coin flipped and they will be in YOUR shoes when they're sitiitng infront of their screen absolutely wild with anger because they can't get a lap in without somebody ramming them.

 

Race etiquette in slower cars? - Some discussion on being lapped, blue flags, and passing slower cars, for position, on the high banks of Daytona.


ForgetfuI wrote:

 

If you're being lapped, it's only good sportsmanship to let the cars lapping you have an easy pass, right away. All it takes is a wide entrance and early brake into a corner, or to drop a little extra speed and hug the inside on corner exit. If a fast car is breathing down your neck, letting them pass should cost you no more than half a second.

 

It's the kind of thing that falls under the 'unwritten rule' category, even though there's the blue flag, which is interpretted differently by many different series'. Rules are different all over. The SCCA has never needed to publish rules that read properly across several different languages, where as the FIA deals with that. That said, the 'unwritten rule' about blue flags is that it means 'Hey dummy, get out of the way!'. Arguing rule interprettations is major part of motorsports. F1 teams have droves of lawyers for this, and other reasons of course.

 

But that's all irrelevant if you're racing for position. Then you have the right to your piece of track, though you may not make deliberate blocking moves, especially those resulting in contact, as most, if not all real race series' have a rule about avoidable contact, which will overrule in most disputes.

 

Catching is easy. Passing is hard, no matter how much faster you are.

 

It all boils down to sportsmanship. These people bashing you are just hacks that can't drive.


 

Sucka-Free 600 Style - One of the early SFS events thread has a lot of good conversation early in the tread.


Jayz606 wrote:

 

(SFS Rules)

 

1) Every attempt to run clean must be exercised by every known (entrant of Sucka-Free Sunday) player on the track at all times.

 

2) Every player must pay due respect to his fellow competitors, fast or not. Courtesy by all players here is expected. Slower players must attempt to yield to faster competitors at all times. In turn, faster drivers will make any and all attempts to pass cleanly.

 

3) Entrants must be capable of potentially running side by side cornering lines. What this means is that you must be ready to run a line beside someone in the corner. No cutting in / sliding out. If this requires slowing your car, it is expected. Other competitors are not you cornering assist.

 

4) Other competitors are not your brakes. Easy to figure out, not much explanation here.

 

5) No wall riders. Again, easy to figure out, not much explanation here either

 

6) No shortcutting.

 

7) Blocking - This something that will most likely be addressed In-Game. I'd like to approach it from the standpoint of no blatant blocking. It's not necessary. Hopefully among a clean running pack we should all be able to find a suitable rival to allow for great competition. And there's no point in needlessly slowing someone who is obviously faster. On that note, we've all know when we're getting passed. Once a pass is initiated, meaning that the passing car has a front fender beside the rear quarter of the lead car the lead car cannot attempt to stop the pass. It's not that hard to tell when somebody got ya, again this all courtesy. When it comes down to the last stretch towards the finish line a one move block can be attempted = no swerving.


 

Driving4 Those Who Can't Drive Good and Want to Learn to Do Other Stuff Good Too - A humorous look at teaching etiquette.


Wonderflex wrote:

 

Welcome everybody, this is a basic guide for those of you who like to play GT5 online, but for some reason can't seem to grasp the concept of GT styles of racing, let alone the idea of proper racing etiquette. Throughout this course you will learn many great things, including some of the following, mind bending, concepts:

 

  • Learning the difference between asphalt and grass
  • Learning the difference between asphalt and sand/dirt
  • Learning the difference between staying on a track and not staying on a track
  • Driving in a straight line
  • Not driving in zig-zag pattern
  • How to not slam into objects to your right and left
  • What a corner is
  • Brakes
  • Break Checks
  • Pit Stops

 

What's Considered Clean for online? - A thread started by a new comer, with some well stated responses.


CorradoVT wrote:

Being faster than me doesn't entitle you to a position in front of me. :smileywink:  As you see in EVERY racing series, there's a big different between CATCHING someone and PASSING someone.

 

I try to follow the rules of F1 when racing.  If I'm racing a clean racer and I accidentally make a cheap pass, I do give the position back, assuming they're competitive enough to be able to reclaim the position; if they keep going off course or start banging behind me, I'm not going to wait around.  I'm a clean enough racer that most of time any contact I initiate should be recoverable by a good driver within a sector or two.

 

Along those lines, as I've said before, I do 'block' but I don't do anything you wouldn't see in most competive racing series.  I take inside lines into corners, occupy the apex, and require you to make 2 moves to pass from my draft if tip your hand too early on a pass (FIA allows one move to defend a position).  If you get a good enough run on me and make a good overtaking move, I'm not going to put you off-track.


 

Retaliation has to stop - Have you been Stalkered? How do you feel about 'Pay Back'? 16 Pages!


MasterGT wrote:

 

You all know how I feel about retaliation. Enough said.

What I would like to add, though, is that it all boils down to attitude and how we play the game. While I also try to ignore the door-bangers (except when they are beating on my car, of course), I focus on a good driver because usually there is at least one in the room besides me. If we frequently end up in the same race repeatedly, I'll switch to his car (another reason to have all cars) and try to race with him alone on equal terms, as if we alone have our own "class" race.

It also helps to encourage me to set up all of these cars.

 

BLOCKING - A good back and forth conversation, definfing what people see as 'blocking'.


MasterGT wrote:
Holding your line, probably on the racing line, isn't really blocking.

Moving over to stop someone from passing you is blocking, then you probably are not on "your" line very much any more and therefore you aren't doing much protecting. Dangerously swaying back and forth continuously, which I am sure is what 420man! has on his mind, would get you flagged in most motorized sports.

 

Bump Drafting -  Clean or dirty? You decide.


GTAllstar wrote:

 

In Bump Drafting, It depends.  If you are on a straight, then bump drafting is fine, it that's the intention.  If you want to Punt the punk into next year, that's not bump drafting.:smileyvery-happy:  In another situation, it is not Bump drafting when the punk is motionless , sideways, in the race and you are bearing down on him.  In that instance, bump drafting his side (t-boning him) is nor considered courteous play.  It's a judgement call :smileyvery-happy::smileyvery-happy::smileyvery-happy:


 

Brake Checking -  Am I guilty of it?


ForgetfuI wrote:
You can brake whenever you need to in a corner, or in a reasonable braking zone leading up to the corner. It's the responsiblity of the following car to not make contact, even if he's faster than you. It's his job to pass.

 

Racing at Eiger - Presents its own unique challenges


Imfaster wrote:
Eiger is a relatively short track.   obviously in a small field of competitors there would be more time.   but in a larger group if you are trying to get to the front you simply don't have the time to "**bleep** foot" around (no direction intended Foot..LOL).   there are many passing areas of opportunity on this track.   ive passed people almost everywhere.   good judgement calls come easier with more experience.

the main thing is to be well aware of what's going on in front, beside and in back of you.   in close quarters it can be hard to tell just how close you are to others.    any clean and most of all respectful racer will be concerned about not hitting or taking out a fellow racer on such a narrow track.


 

Corner cutting, and running wide at Fuji - Stay between the lines... or else


TTourist wrote:
Yes, there is no doubt that there is an advantage to be gained by using these areas at Fuji. Since they are not part of the racing suface, intentionally using them is considered by many to be unnacceptable. I don't think many people have a problem with occaissionally missing the corner a bit and going wide in these areas. After all, there is a reason they are there: it is easy to find yourself going wider than intended in those places. Personally, I try not to let myself gain an advantage after unintentionally going off-track. Try to get back on-track as soon as possible while yielding to on-track cars which (I recently realized) have and deserve the right of way. If I gained a position, I give it back. If I clearly gained ground, I give it back. Would also like to say that going wide in these corners may be one of those areas where people may be doing "improper" things while not really realizing that they are doing so. We shoud cut them some slack.....to a certain extent.
Rmk700 posted, from GTP: (Click to see all of the pics for Fuji)
 

 

Please don't Drift all up in my face! - A plea from racers to drifter, "Get out of the way!"

 


Jlbowler wrote:

 

It's not so much the ghost of the drifters car.  It's really more the smoke screen that they create in front of you when you are lapping them.  During close racing, there is nothing worse then having you vision impared by the smoke coming from the tires of a drifter that is a ghost.  I have sent a few drifters a message on the XMB explaining this occurance and every one of them has sent me back a reply stating that they didn't realize that they were creating a problem for the races and they would make an effort to be more considerate while drifting.  I have a lot of respect for those that can drift, it's not something I'm very good at and I just don't have the interest to learn to do, so props to anyone who can.  We have to share the track for now and since it doesn't matter how fast the drifters are in relation to the rest of the field, it should be their responsibility to move out of the way of the actual competition that is going on around them and not slow any part of the racing field in any way.  Suzuka 10 lapper probably isn't the best place to drift becasue the racing field has a tendancy to get spread out more which should cause the drifters to pull off more often.  I don't have a problem sharing the track with drifters as long as they give the racers the room to conduct a race without interference.

 

Passing under braking

 



 

Savowood wrote:

 

 

This is also an important note for any racing event at Fuji.  A maneuver many people use to overtake is to dive to the inside before the turn-in to a corner.  As long as this is timed correctly, it's a great way to score a pass.  However, when the overtaken driver uses the run-off area because they couldn't make the turn without slowing more, they need to give up the position.  This is common in T1, T3, T5, T9 (after the chicane which is T8 and T8a), and the turn onto the final straight.  The last set of races here, I made several passes just as described in each of those places, and more than one driver used the run-off to keep from being passed.  That's not acceptable.  You should know better if you're racing with this group.Getting passed is just part of racing.  Make the same move on the person who passed you when you come around the next lap, assuming you're able to keep the gap closed and they don't defend the pass.  This is just as frustrating as racing in the wild with the people who cut the chicane.  It's no different going wide than it is to cut the chicane.  Going wide is off course and you must give up the position.



FatLeadFoot wrote:

This is a major bone of contention with me on this track and is one of the reasons why you haven't seen me running online lately. Also before you read my thoughts on this, I've always enjoyed running with you and we've had some outstanding races with one another.

 

My take on your method of diving underneath someone using the preferred line at Fuji (run some TT's against a top 10 ghost and see for yourself) is almost the same unacceptable move as going out on the runoff areas. 9 times out of ten, the diving car will get into the car on the preferred line causing contact forcing the other car into the runoff area. If he doesn't go wide it's because the he is aware of your questionable move inside and unnecessarily slows in order to not make contact. Diving inside is not the fastest way around those off camber turns and is probably why you see that passing opportunity on that section of Fuji more often than not. For someone who can understand this as well as you, then you should also understand that getting to the corner first by late braking also means your on the accelerator much later while you're waiting for the car to slow enough to make the turn. The person you just made the dive on has already made the turn on the correct line and is on the throttle much earlier being blocked by you so it's either go wide or make contact.

 

I've run literally thousands of laps TTing at Fuji with most of the cars in this game. No matter which car I've used, I can always make it to those corners diving inside before most top 10 ghost only to get buried coming out of those turns. Slow in fast out.


Master GT wrote:

The inside dive may be great from the diver's point of view because he can fully see what is happening in front of him (whether he can actually handle his car properly is a different story).

However, in a simulation, the divee can't always tell what is happening behind/beside him or what is coming his way. You can't expect the divee to be able to do what the diver needs to have happen, at the right time, every single time, and expect everyone to come away unscathed from such a move. In most cases that I have seen carried out, the inside dive is just a selfish, careless "Who? Me?" move.


ForgetfuI wrote:

My rule of thumb... Do not attempt the pass, unless you can break the plane of their rear bumper before the braking starts. You have then iniated side by side action, and the resposibility then lies on both drivers to maintain their lane. Diving in under braking is over-agressive and unfair.

 

If you push out wide, forcing the pasee off track, you're at fault. If the outside car turns down on the passer, then it is the passee's fault.



Proto-X wrote:
I think this is not a issue but more like real racing, meaning??  Whoever is behind is the one responsible for making the pass, this is how racing is in real life and has been for many years and it will never change.  My view is this, who is behind need to find a way to pass him/her.  Remember patience is key and I know sometimes that is long gone but at the end, there is a long straightway.  Now if you dive bomb, it's your responsability (behind car) not to hit the front car since he is already making the turn.  I always use the **bleep**pit view, I always know where my enemy is, I use the rear camera a lot as well, side as well...all this should be taken to account.  Still, I think whoever is behind is responsible for the pass, this is where a good driver show his skillz, at least I'd like to think so! :smileytongue:

 


Savowood wrote:
The overtaking was done under braking because I had a better braking ability through setup or balls.  Coming down the inside is a very valid racing move and as long as it's done BEFORE the turn-in, it's clean.  In every case in the races I was writing about, I made the move well before the turn-in, and the overtaken driver had plenty of opportunity to slow, and made the choice to keep pushing it too hard and go on throttle too early to make the turn cleanly.
Swerv, yes, I've seen people make the same move and do it too late, thereby smashing into the side of the person they're overtaking, but it's not the case here.  Each time I made the move to the inside, it was well early and I modulated the brakes intentionally to stay inside in order to cause the other driver to have to slow down more.  The overtaken driver should have continued on the braking line and as a valid offensive move, at T1/2 anyway, made an over-under or simply gone side-by-side to T3 where they have the same position I just had on them in T1/2.  Even with only the rear quarter panel overlap, the overtaken driver would still have the turn in that case at T3.
At Summit Point in WV, if you look at the track map of the main course, there's a very similar T1 through T3 setup there.  I teach the same offensive and defensive tactic there.  I've had someone try to overtake me at T1/2, and held it to T3 where I had position and was able to pull ahead through "The Chute" (T4).  BTW, it's interesting how similar Fuji and SPR are up through T5...just an observation and possibly an explanation as to why I'm comfortable overtaking there.

 

 

 

 

Please feel free to remind me of any good conversations I may have missed, or to discuss anything that hasn't been covered already, if you've read thru the above threads, and have something new to contribute.

 

This is not for the purpose of whining about bad drivers, but to further the discussion with regards to proper racing etiquette.

 

 

 

Message Edited by ForgetfuI on 05-14-2009 09:05 PM
Message Edited by ForgetfuI on 05-14-2009 09:05 PM
Message Edited by ForgetfuI on 05-14-2009 09:06 PM
DriverSports.org
Message 165 of 423 (457 Views)
Sackboy
Registered: 07/14/2008
Offline
613 posts
 

Re: Discussions on Race Etiquette.

Aug 26, 2008
Interesting Thead, There might be few you missed so I'll check backSmiley Very Happy But definatly the ones you currently posted are worth to readSmiley Very Happy


Photobucket
Message 1 of 423 (457 Views)
Reply
0 Likes
Uncharted Territory
Registered: 04/06/2008
Offline
2129 posts
 

Re: Discussions on Race Etiquette.

Aug 26, 2008

I think something to add, is too LOOK AHEAD, the corners are going to come very soon, so by looking ahead you can avoid crashing into a car. For example, turn 1 of Suzuka, when braking, look ahead at the turn and if you see if a car is there and try to avoid it. Also if some car got into a accident and is still on track, and slow down and avoid it, don't crash into it, assuming you always looked ahead, you should be able to see it, unless you were right behind the car and it spun out. This is important for F1 because the corners come up even quicker.

 

Also, don't always overtake someone, just drive behind and when the moment presents itself overtake them. Which is what Lbloom said.

 

Finally if you want to retire, don't drive backwards, just park to the side or go to the pits.

Message Edited by Slifer556 on 08-26-2008 02:22 PM
__________________________

Photobucket
Message 2 of 423 (457 Views)
Sackboy
Registered: 07/14/2008
Offline
613 posts
 

Re: Discussions on Race Etiquette.

Aug 26, 2008

Slifer556 wrote:

I think something to add, is too LOOK AHEAD, the corners are going to come very soon, so by looking ahead you can avoid crashing into a car. For example, turn 1 of Suzuka, when braking, look ahead at the turn and if you see if a car is there and try to avoid it. Also if some car got into a accident and is still on track, and slow down and avoid it, don't crash into it, assuming you always looked ahead, you should be able to see it, unless you were right behind the car and it spun out. This is important for F1 because the corners come up even quicker.

 

Also, don't always overtake someone, just drive behind and when the moment presents itself overtake them.

 

Finally if you want to retire, don't drive backwards, just park to the side or go to the pits.


 

Ugh, I hate those people that drive in reverse, atleast their car goes ghost.... For the F1 race, it's really hard to pass without any contact, when there are two really fast drivers on Suzuka it's really easy to block the person from passing you, forcing the person behind to brake or push the person.... I have had several races where I could not get past a person like this so I ended up passing him when he crashed but that was like 4 laps later....


Photobucket
Message 3 of 423 (457 Views)
Reply
0 Likes
Uncharted Territory
Registered: 04/06/2008
Offline
2129 posts
 

Re: Discussions on Race Etiquette.

Aug 26, 2008

SkillzGT wrote:

Slifer556 wrote:

I think something to add, is too LOOK AHEAD, the corners are going to come very soon, so by looking ahead you can avoid crashing into a car. For example, turn 1 of Suzuka, when braking, look ahead at the turn and if you see if a car is there and try to avoid it. Also if some car got into a accident and is still on track, and slow down and avoid it, don't crash into it, assuming you always looked ahead, you should be able to see it, unless you were right behind the car and it spun out. This is important for F1 because the corners come up even quicker.

 

Also, don't always overtake someone, just drive behind and when the moment presents itself overtake them.

 

Finally if you want to retire, don't drive backwards, just park to the side or go to the pits.


 

Ugh, I hate those people that drive in reverse, atleast their car goes ghost.... For the F1 race, it's really hard to pass without any contact, when there are two really fast drivers on Suzuka it's really easy to block the person from passing you, forcing the person behind to brake or push the person.... I have had several races where I could not get past a person like this so I ended up passing him when he crashed but that was like 4 laps later....

I hope you don't mean this kind of contact ! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2MeWpZSeL8&feature=related

 

 

__________________________

Photobucket
Message 4 of 423 (457 Views)
Reply
0 Likes
Sackboy
Registered: 07/14/2008
Offline
613 posts
 

Re: Discussions on Race Etiquette.

Aug 26, 2008

Slifer556 wrote:

SkillzGT wrote:

Slifer556 wrote:

I think something to add, is too LOOK AHEAD, the corners are going to come very soon, so by looking ahead you can avoid crashing into a car. For example, turn 1 of Suzuka, when braking, look ahead at the turn and if you see if a car is there and try to avoid it. Also if some car got into a accident and is still on track, and slow down and avoid it, don't crash into it, assuming you always looked ahead, you should be able to see it, unless you were right behind the car and it spun out. This is important for F1 because the corners come up even quicker.

 

Also, don't always overtake someone, just drive behind and when the moment presents itself overtake them.

 

Finally if you want to retire, don't drive backwards, just park to the side or go to the pits.


 

Ugh, I hate those people that drive in reverse, atleast their car goes ghost.... For the F1 race, it's really hard to pass without any contact, when there are two really fast drivers on Suzuka it's really easy to block the person from passing you, forcing the person behind to brake or push the person.... I have had several races where I could not get past a person like this so I ended up passing him when he crashed but that was like 4 laps later....

I hope you don't mean this kind of contact ! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2MeWpZSeL8&feature=related

 

 


Wow, he got owned thereSmiley Tongue He wasnt that good back then, he's peak of competition was like 2000-2004 where he ownde everyone so much



Photobucket
Message 5 of 423 (457 Views)
Reply
0 Likes
Uncharted Territory
Registered: 04/06/2008
Offline
2129 posts
 

Re: Discussions on Race Etiquette.

Aug 26, 2008

SkillzGT wrote:

 

Wow, he got owned thereSmiley Tongue He wasnt that good back then, he's peak of competition was like 2000-2004 where he ownde everyone so much


Actually he won 2 championship titles before 1997, so he was very good. In qualifying he and Villeneuve (who is Canadian) and Villeneuve's partner all got the same time. It was like 1:21.072.

__________________________

Photobucket
Message 6 of 423 (457 Views)
Reply
0 Likes
Last Guardian
Registered: 02/13/2005
Offline
13694 posts
 

Re: Discussions on Race Etiquette.

Aug 26, 2008

Race cars that have bodies on them or at least nerf bars, don't have that problem

 

 

If you are beating the newbs in the beginner's races on a consistent basis, go ahead, get your 5 second lead and on the last lap, pull over and let them get the win.  If you are consistently leading noObs by 5 seconds, money is not an issue for you anymore.

Facebook|Twitter
Image Hosted by ImageShack.us





Image Hosted by ImageShack.us















GT5P TeamSpeak Server





Image hosted by Photobucket.com
Image hosted by Photobucket.com
What are you listening to???!
Image hosted by Photobucket.com
"Stalking the lost not by land, but by air with the Word of God through music" DTS
KittenWar Crackers' Kittenwar stats Lord Of The Peeps
Message 7 of 423 (457 Views)
Reply
0 Likes
Uncharted Territory
Registered: 04/06/2008
Offline
2129 posts
 

Re: Discussions on Race Etiquette.

Aug 26, 2008

Well I think for Suzuka you should not try to overtake on the outside, because the guy on the inside could decide to go wide and force you off track. For example, after the uphill turn (right after the twisty part) if you try to overtake an AI there by going on the inside and then running wide, the AI will run into the sand.

__________________________

Photobucket
Message 8 of 423 (457 Views)
Reply
0 Likes
I Only Post Everything
Registered: 01/19/2005
Offline
1186 posts
 

Nothing

Aug 26, 2008
1 I would like to add is. Don't hold a faster driver up for too long. Exception being on the last lap. Nothing worse then following a clearly slower driver around for most of a race, it's not so bad if you are catching the cars in front of both of you though.
Message 9 of 423 (457 Views)
Reply
0 Likes