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Uncharted Territory
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Re: Nürburgring Bench Racing Thread | DriverSports Time Trial

Mar 19, 2012

Having caused such a ruckus in the other thread, I bought a new "untainted" Zonda R and went for some fun.

I did a number of runs with the as is default setup to get a feel for the car and the track. After mulling it over a bit, I tried a few things to see what the absolute minimum would be that would change the car as little as possible. Once I had my tweak, I then did a number of runs alternating the default with a setup with a minor Camber tweak. I felt it was the most plausible missing item in the setup, as it's an adjustment that is present on nearly every road car and race car out there.

In order to preserve the spirit of the TT, I set the F @  0.2 and the R @ 0.1, both of which are very low. Compare this with the 1.0F and 0.5R you get with the default setup on many MR cars in the game. It was not my intent to make the car easy to drive, merely to give it a touch of stability that I felt it lacked.

No other changes were made. The car was run with the test mode set as should be, with Manual's Transmission and ABS @ 1.

Best time with the default set up: 7:06.177

Best time with the Camber Adj: 6:55.931

The tests were run in alternating fashion, trying to beat the previous time with the opposite set up.

The differences in the car were noted as follows..: The small Camber Adj eliminated the extraneous sliding the Zonda is prone to, allowing it to be driven without the all the loosey goosey side slide. The car was still unruly and commanded your complete attention, but the unnecessary slip and slide was gone. That part of the tweak I liked very much...

However, this same adjustment demands more from the driver where it matters, in braking and in corner exit. I found I had to be even more careful on entry and exit. Because the car has a little extra bite, it bites harder when you drive it incorrectly. If you nail the throttle too early or too hard, the car will come right around. Get into the corner too hot, the camber is not enough to hold it there. Brake too late or too hard and you'll suffer the same fate as the default. Compounding that was because the car was somewhat more predictable, I found myself wanting to drive it harder. That part I didn't like so much, but as it's the whole point of doing one of these, I really had no basis to be hatin'...

I had more spin outs with the Camber than without as the slide default just let the car wander and I could gather it back up. But even though it will spin more easily, it did so only when it should have, when I did something wrong. In my mind, I found the car with the adjustment did more to both force and reinforce proper technique than the default. Overall, I feel it the trade off was a very positive step. It allowed me the chance to drive the car, worry about what I should be worrying about and gain confidence in the limits of the car. It was still white knuckle fever, just a good kind that was enjoyable and lead me to want to keep going. 

I think I have another 10 seconds in the car with some more seat time. The few hours I spent today were good, but a few days of that will be better. I'm actually looking forward to the next go round, but it may be Wed before I recover enough to try again.

It would be of interest to me to have others try this and see if they meet with similar results.

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Umbrella Scientist
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Re: Nürburgring Bench Racing Thread | DriverSports Time Trial

Mar 20, 2012

I'm not ignoring anyone, just busy, and I should have some answers and changes to announce here soon. Thanks for the discussions everyone and thanks especially for the submissions and pictures.

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Uncharted Territory
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Re: Nürburgring Bench Racing Thread | DriverSports Time Trial

Mar 20, 2012

Well here is mine.  Since it is so slow no one will likely require film.

I have four Z4 Coupes, two built up with unremovable parts and two stock.  Problem is both stock Z4 were zero miles so I'm going to break this one in by running laps.

BMW Z4  M Coupe "08",  Sports hard, 464 PP, 3/19/12 Greyghost2,  08:51'523.

Old age is not for sissies.
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Uncharted Territory
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Re: Nürburgring Bench Racing Thread | DriverSports Time Trial

Mar 20, 2012

exXboxFan wrote:

Gar529 wrote:

Subaru 360 '58 - Gar529 - 16:38.631

CM Tires, 252pp

nice.  that's a funny one.  probably the slowest you've been around there in quite a while, huh?

Schwimwagon anyone?

Square, triangle, circle,... EX!

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Schwimwagon ... the only vehicle in the game I truely hate, and I'll get another one every year I get older.   YEEECHHHH!!!!!!

Old age is not for sissies.
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Treasure Hunter
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Re: Nürburgring Bench Racing Thread | DriverSports Time Trial

Mar 20, 2012

Audi TT Coupe 3.2 quattro '03 - clacksman - 8'25.178

C-s 428pp

The 5/5 brake with a light rear end gets pretty interesting in a few places.

http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff378/XclacksmanX/GT5%20Photo%20Mode/AudiTT03Nordschleife3.jpg

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Keyblade Wielder
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Re: Nürburgring Bench Racing Thread | DriverSports Time Trial

Mar 20, 2012

greyghost2 wrote:
Schwimwagon ... the only vehicle in the game I truely hate, and I'll get another one every year I get older.   YEEECHHHH!!!!!!

Old age is not for sissies.

sorry to hear that

I've got a few that I hate.  luckily I like my birthday car.  a Renault Turbo 5 '80

come to think of it, you don't have to use your birthday ticket.  Just keep it for a rainy day.  A really really really rainy day, when someone tells you to build an Ark.  Just whip out your fleet of schwim-vagons. 

aka Ex_Stream_Tuna -FR's & Racing done here. ExXboxfan = Netflix only
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Uncharted Territory
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Re: Nürburgring Bench Racing Thread | DriverSports Time Trial

Mar 20, 2012

I actually had a chance to try for a bit this morning.

I started into the routine again and was able to better the times a little...

Only marginal improvement with the stock set up, not worth reporting. What gets me is not the corners. It's the errant wandering as the car traverses the bumps in the very slight sweepers that bite me. With nothing to lean on, the car  wanders quite a bit, and I just don't have the reflexes to react to it in time. That's leading to have to slow down in places I normally don't have to, and places I can run all out with the Camber set up.

What's funny (..and quite cool actually..) to me is that the stock set up car is  just as fast in the corners as the Camber set up once you understand the toe action of the car.

I now know why Gar sees the under steer in the center, and it tells a great deal of how he drives in and out of a corner. Because of the 0.0 F and the very shallow 0.20 rear, the car is in a constant state of toe flux. The F goes neg on braking, the back on downshift in higher revs and on acceleration. In the center of the corner, if you let the car roll long enough, the toe will come to where the wheels are all straight. In that condition, and with no camber to lean on to help hold the car in the corner the Front will push until throttle is applied and the rear toe moves to a more favorable angle.

As long as you are braking or accelerating, the Toe works for you to turn the car. Maintenance brake and maintenance throttle are more than enough to keep the toe working for me through the turns and I can take them with a mph or two of the Camber car. This also explains why the car will spin more with the camber set up because it has a better contact patch on the outside vs the inside.

With the Camber change, the straights and slight sweepers are much more controllable. The car is still a handful, but it doesn't react in surprising ways, it reacts the way cars do. The little Camber gives me that little bit to lean on allowing me just enough time to collect the car and save the lap as well as the stability the car needs to run the high speed sections wide open without having to worry.

Current best time with the Camber change: 6:52.740

My next goal is to crack the 6:40's. I figure if I can get there I'll be content.

Being able to work down from the 7:07.763 I started at to under 6:50 will be a happy day indeed. I think I can get there too if I can hold on or get a good drive day. I had the 52 by almost 4 seconds in the green and lost it near the 3/4 mark. It was a bonehead move on my part, a place I usually have no trouble, but I just had to push. I know there's more there to get if I can stay focused.

I also had the time just under a second green with the stock setup but pushed too hard up the hill and lost it on the 2nd sweeper... Again I was pushing when I didn't need to. I was a little surprised at that, and am now thinking if I crack the 40's (..oh hot place no..he did not just say that..) I'm going to go to the stock set up and just run it to see how far I can take it before I lose my marbles.

This wasn't a good driving day, but I had 4 solid runs with the camber set and one with stock set out of 10.

Have to say though, I hate 50/50 odds... Especially when I lose...

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I Only Post Everything
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Re: Nürburgring Bench Racing Thread | DriverSports Time Trial

Mar 21, 2012

Nürburgring Nordschleife_zonda r.jpg

Pagani Zonda R- cr0wlft0fdmurder - 6:36.388

RH Tires, 653pp

I think i'll settle with this time

I did save the replay, just not sure how to put it up on here.

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: Nürburgring Bench Racing Thread | DriverSports Time Trial

Mar 21, 2012

I'll throw my hat into the Zonda ring...

zonda.jpg

20/3/12

Pagani Zonda R '09 - GTP_Wizard - 6'24.366

RH Tires, 655PP

Breaking in the car as I type this and plan to give it another go, hopefully over the weekend.  My goal is to crack 6'20.

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Umbrella Scientist
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Re: Nürburgring Bench Racing Thread | DriverSports Time Trial

Mar 21, 2012

As promised I'd like to announce the updating of this thread to version 1.1

In an effort to strike a balance for all interested parties, from this point forward tuning will be allowed on any parts that are adjustable by default. This means that all race cars and tuner cars can be tuned to the driver's liking, while the street car and concept categories remain as a place to compete in stock cars (brakes, aero and user controlled center diffs can be adjusted if equipped by default)

As for tire selection, street and concept cars will continue to be run on the default tire. Production based race cars will be run on RH tires and Prototypes and Forumla cars will be run on RM tires. Though this may not always result in the perceived right tire for the right car, we do feel this presents the best all around comprimise for all participants.

Thank you for your continued interest in this event and especially thanks for the entries.

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