Played it a couple more times today. It's just not as fun as Team Favor. There's less interactivity with the map, and there are fewer primary points of contention, aside from the occasional Bonus Flag. CTF has just the left and right, unless two people are running around with the flag (then it gets weird.)
In Team Favor, though, there are three altars, plus the Spear when that arrives. It's a lot more fun. There's also less pressure to constantly keep an eye on the altars, since you can see them being captured before they actually have been. With the flag, you won't know until it's already been pulled out, at which point it's pretty difficult to reclaim.
Also, , I still feel that there are two many hammers on the map. I'd probably say that about the Hermes Sandals, but I hardly see people use them for some reason. In a 1v1 fight, it's usually easy enough to dodge, but that's rarely how things play out.
Another thing – the flag bearer doesn't do enough damage. I say this because if both flags have been taken, there's nothing much for the flag bearer to do aside from run around to avoid the enemy team and pray to the gods that your team can competently kill the enemy flag bearer. I'd like to at least be able to kill him myself. You can use magic, true, but it's difficult to acquire when you're being hunted, so if you don't have a Zeus member providing it, you're probably out of luck.
Anyway, CTF just feels kind of soulless, like everyone is just running around killing and hoping for a small reprieve to grab the flag. With Team Favor you had to choose one of several places where to be, it wasn't practically decided for you like with CTF, and you had multiple ways to increase the score: grabbing chests, the altars, kills, brutal kills, ringouts, and the spear; with CTF, it's just one.
My current hopeful suggestions are:
1) Make the Bonus Flag appear more often
2) Let Polyphemus fight in the center of the map (near the portal)
3) Give the flag bearer better damage on his moves. I think it needs to do more, so that you're not just running around in circles when both flags have been taken.
4) Allow red chests to count as a point after your team acquires a certain number of them, perhaps 25?
i think we all do hopefully on the open beta it will be possible
I was skeptical with how well this CTF mode would pan out, and again team Santa Monica I'm blown away!
You guys have really done a great job bringing the GoW brand to Multiplayer.
The map works very well for both Favor and CTF.
Bonus Flag concept is genius.
This CTF game mode really supports a bunch of different playstyles.
As "jack of all trades" kinda of guy, I've had matches were I just:
-Defended my flag.
-Help support teammates.
-Held and disrupt the midfield.
-Flagged rushed avoiding skirmishes.
-Mixed it up.
All of them work well.
After becoming familiar with the footgames and map layout, cleverness and fore-thinking are the keys to success. And the awesome feeling you get when in the zone is very addicting.
The only gripes/balancing issues I see with the way CTF plays on this map are:
-It's Hammertime none stop. To the point where I'm using the Hammer more often than my normal weapon.
-The Health Orb fountain feels closer/more accessible, to the right side team flag. Possibly giving that team a slight advantage.
-Flag carrier attacks are almost useless, dodging, Item (not positive if you can use item though), and Magic are the only viable abilities while Flag running. A quick L1+ sweeping attack or a 2-3 hit combo with the last hit that knocking players back a bit to gain space would be nice. The current AoE special is slow and doesn't seem too effective since you'll most likely get interrupted before it comes out, making it very situational (maybe just make this move more effective).
-Uneven teams suck... 4-2 and 3-1 should be evened out during gameplay (this is just a beta issue though, right?).
-The Bonus Flag is great, I would love to see it up more often during matches, it really opens the map up.
I've been reading a lot of players feedback about how CTF sucks and Favor is way better.
Perhaps it's because Player Kills count towards the team's score in Favor thus supporting players that focus on killing each other.
This gives Favor a more Deathmatch feel to it.
I wonder how Favor would play if the Team score was resource based only, and a true Deathmatch mode was incorporated (not that I would change how Favor plays).
Or how CTF would play if Kills counted towards Team score (like Flag captures are 1000 points and kills were 50 or 100, first Team to 5000 points wins) thus breaking any tie games and giving players more credit and an alternative to scoring.
Anyway you guys have a potentially great product here, keep up the good work. Can't wait for the release!
^how is it abusable when it's the only way to survive? it's not like all pursuers are too dumb to come up with something. so bad? imagine if every grapple connects. how's that for bad? dodging recovery rate? as a flag thief you have an offscreen indicator for everyone to see. how would nerfing the dodge stick make it more fairer for the pursuers? they can sprint, flag thieves can't. that's already so big an advantage. dodging isn't abusable, it's just that most people still haven't found a way to deal with it. i did, but of course i'm not gonna tell you. go find your own strategy instead of whining about it.
who cares about only 1 mode? Like I told you before, dodging is not only unsafe for flag carreriers, but jumping is quicker. Surviving? Are you kidding me, surviving implies a sacfrifaice or risk, yet the only risk to dodging is inconsistent and not trustworthy.
Dodging is abusive since it has that ridiculous invincibility fram, which is made even worse since there is virtually no recovery time between each dodge. Matches devolve into a constant trade off of dodges and attacks, until one person gives up, or another teammate comes and double teams the other guy. The easist way to deal with dodge is the grapple move, but IT IS UNRESPONSIVE, and has ridiculously short range. In addition, the grapple chains have more revocery time than the dodges, like that even makes sense. I understand how dodges are used to advance and fake opponents out, but they are just too quick for it to be considered balanced. The person who dodge spamms the most usually wins, and that is not an indicator of skill at all. Dodges are not supposed to be a tool used liberally, it is meant to be the LAST LINE OF DEFENSE and nothing more, yet opponets use dodges more than any other attacks. Ppl would rather dodge than block....and for the most part they are successful.
Here are a few of solutions:
1)The range for the grapples get doubled and has a greater range of freedom other than directly ahead
2) The recovery rate between dodges increases, maybe even doubled
3)The invincibility frame flat out gets taken out
4) Allow players to grapple while walking at normal speeds, but NOT while sprinting, and slightly increasing the duration for grappling after dodges.
I do agree, that magic should be unavoidable. I've commented on another thread about it. So, in that, I agree.
Honestly, in fighting though, how many times has the dodge i-frame decided a battle for you? I've seen you SovereignSky, and you're a really good fighter...not trying to be rude, but I think this is a little nit-pickey for you. I can assume most of the time, you as a player, are pressing an advantage on someone not as skilled as you. So he gets an i-frame on you...I don't see it as a huge advantage.
IMO, you work in the confines of the system. We are here to provide valuable feedback, but I think we can agree to disagree on the apparent 'OP-edness' of dodge. I don't mind if they keep it as is, but if they do change the mechanic, so be it. I'll still have fun playing
Huh don't recall your name but yes i-frames has decided some battles for me, flag users dodge i-frame so they don't flinch etc, dodge i-frame preventing world hammer weapon from blowing you back. Also I'm a lil rusty from the 1 week of not playing so I've been having brain farts from time to time, I can discern when it's a good player and an abusing player, Del-Sol97, TEKUHASHI etc are good, Prophecie7 or whatever guy from 2 nights ago was dodge abuser......I do try to play tactively sometimes, I also never use /\ unless launcher or special.......did we play this week? I've never played with some forumers till this week......
yep. I was just in a match with Prophecie, and he was spamming dodges like it was nothing. It came to the point when I said screw it and let him hit me. A perfect way to discern a dodge abuser is if they use it after every attack. Dodges are supposed to be a counter for heavy attacks and poorly placed light attacks, not a constant spam fest that works as well as sprinting.
Yeah, I really think a few of the good players on this board are continuing to press for even more advantages to their side. Remove dodge i-frames, so I can constantly hit you, make grapple work for EVERY time I press R1-no matter the distance, make magic an insta-death, make my hammer AOE unavoidable. I get it, you want to be the best player, but I think we need to try and understand every perspective, especially when concerning a videogame that should be fun to play.
I agree. The ppl abusing the game's mechanics are the very one obsessively defending it. However, everything you posted actually needs to be implemented, except for the magic nonsense. The hammer is ridiculously underpowered, so the heavy attack and hammer AOE attacks should be unvoidable. However, if magic recieves a boost, then that is like giving a buff to the already OP Zeus class.
Just wanted to say thank you for this feedback thus far. We'll dissect it further and comeback to you.
Keep it coming and remember, NOBODY controls these boards but the community overall.
We recognize all opinions and will not be swayed by any minions of Hades, the end.
Thank you so much. I will address my response to you since you are the one taking note of this.
To get a better understanding of the dodge situation, watch a couple of pro matches, and witness how often it is spammed. It was to my understanding that dodges were supposed to be the utter last line of defense after blocking and parrying. However, it is more of a "get out of jail free card" than anything else. In fact, players do not even block or parry since dodging puts them into a more favorable position. This is not an indicator of skill at all since the i-frames make even direct hits missable, thus allowig players to play sloppy. The only defense to this is grappling, yet the chain is so short and it is wildly unresponsive, especially under lag. The easist way to realize how unbalanced dodging is, is due to the fact that players can spam dodge to run to safety, and because the grapple chain is so unreliable, they often succeed. I also hbelieved that kicking automatically hit a player that was dodging regardless of i-frames, yet even this is not the case.
Here is a few solutions I hope the Santa Monica team considers:
1)Dodging stays the same, but The range for the grapples get doubled and has a greater range of freedom other than directly ahead. (this way it becomes more risky to dodge.
2) The recovery rate between dodges increases, maybe even doubled. (this way dodge spamming is more punishable, and not used as the means for escaping from a fight)
3)The invincibility frame flat out gets taken out (this way at least moves that are would connect still connect, thus forcing players to play more smart and dodge carefully).
4) Allow players to grapple while walking at normal speeds, but NOT while sprinting, and slightly increasing the duration for grappling after dodges. (This way a player can still chase a fleeing dodge spammer without constantly having to stop and grapple).
5)Also, in the next patch, please improve the netcode. This alone can aid in the dodge abuses.
Thank you so much for considering our points. Keep up the amazing work.