Treasure Hunter
Registered: 01/15/2006
5836 posts

Re: GoW:SP ideas

Dec 22, 2012

More SP

1:21 Wrecking Ball, double jump into air-to-ground Tether for air OS.


2:11 This confirms nothing special for CG with 'rage' active, but CG does seem able to make the Grunts drop their WW.


2:16 What happened here? Did he drop it and pick it up again?  Looked glitchy.


2:31 Graphical glitch.


2:36 Air S whoring with rage active (not that it needs to be for the fire bombs apparently).


2:53 Captain fire death.


NOTE: At least this chap is showing some things the others neglected.  Definitely worth my time watching him go at it as such.


3:36 I-frames.  But also, a useless pole vault attack by the Javelin armed Grunts.


5:02 How the Hell did the Fire Talos miss him?  Nice hit box, lads.


5:11 And again...also, the 'cores' working on the Fire Talos is somewhat silly (same for the fire element spell doing anything to it).


6:44 Air OS infinite, but subject to targetting...


6:52 Looks like air OS with rage doesn't cause an explosion as OH and Wrecking Ball had.  Pity.


7:29 Again showing S without enough meter for 'rage' (or using meter/magic to fuel it) leaving cores ON targets like Thera's Bane used to do.


NOTE: Same guy.  First impressions this time, I suppose.


1:50 Like GoWIII all over again with this Battering Ram nonsense.  I just know they'll stick to the GoWIII collision system.  All hopes of a return to form dashed.  I like the ability, but they just need to make IT static rather than ruin the whole system.


2:48 >vet

Hmmm, yes.  With time, I'm sure he could become as such.  He seems to enjoy the series well enough.


3:14 See?  This chap has some background with the series.  Some passion.  First to use a **bleep** air OS on the Captain.  Confirms there won't be any GoW1 infinite air OS antics on this foe (seemingly), but there is an allowance for multiple before we come down.  It's possible air t1 could maintain the infinite much like what has  been done before (Dante's Inferno did this exact sort of thing as Hotel might recall).


NOTE: The damage dealt via the air OS doesn't seem that severe though.  Hard to tell as the third didn't land.


3:33 CG to rage 't,t' (wall splat) to OH.


3:38 Foe was immune to the CG, but he was immune to the counter attempt.  Cute exchange.


3:58 Yeah...the grabs are definately not doing a lot of damage.  I can't imagine they're doing more than 10-20 damage (while Power % related attacks should tear him apart much quicker because of settings).  Like in GoWIII, the grabs are too weak for many cases (way strong for the Satyrs *nice treat*).


6:43 I like this chap.  Lots of ring-outs and trash talk.

Message 61 of 75 (5,168 Views)
Treasure Hunter
Registered: 01/15/2006
5836 posts

Re: GoW:SP ideas

Jan 13, 2013

The gent got the demo.


Findlestick showing most moves.


Good to have vets working on it.  If all goes well, I might have it myself before too long.  Then I can save the gent of testing in my place.  Might even do a recording of my own.  Hadn't considered the hand-me-down phone could record.  Better than what I had before.  Not quite a capture card, but it would suffice.

Message 62 of 75 (5,116 Views)
Treasure Hunter
Registered: 01/15/2006
5836 posts

Re: GoW:SP ideas

[ Edited ]
Jan 14, 2013

May as well post my own notes on the SP demo after having watched the gent, findlestick and many others go at it.


Good to have vets working on it.  If all goes well, I might have it myself before too long.  Then I can save the gent of testing in my place.  Might even do a recording of my own.  Hadn't considered the hand-me-down phone could record.  Better than what I had before.  Not quite a capture card, but it would suffice.

Time for my own testing.


So s1, s2, s3 and s4 all cancel well.  There is no "S".  t0 and t1 cancel well.  Straight "T" is fast, but not quite as fast as when strung after other moves (marginal difference).  T doesn't cancel via evades or blocks, but jumps will cancel it (for lack of pursue).  Whether this cancels pursue or not remains to be seen.  So jumping into air block works.  You can cancel it with lock/item cancel too which is canceled by blocks, so L1+L2 makes Ascension safe.  Also, L2, (R) would allow immediate escape.  "s4a" cannot lead to quick T.  Air L2+s with block simulataneously briefly sticks us in the air (cancel issue).


Lots of moves allow evade cancels, but I find that Unarmed o1 (kick) is the fastest (faster than s1).  Tether cancels aren't too good.  Can't cancel out of s4a, T or t0 with it.  Punch string only comes out after air o1, s2, and s3.  For the second and third punch to come out, it seems you have to hit a target. *needs rage testing*  o1 semi-cancels T.


Air blocks don't drop us as quickly as in the past and we can air block cancel s1, s2, s3 and t1 quite quickly and repeat.  Air o1 (unarmed) has no cancel.  You can cancel L1+o (charge) with lock.  No evade specials from what I can tell.  All face button inputs for the charge lead to 'Rush' which also cancels with lock (but also evades).


L1+x is indeed Olympic Slash (with searing cores from TB).  It cannot be canceled normally (as with other specials), but it IS open to Tether cancels (just on the ground).  That sort of allows a slightly faster escape if you R1 to L1 or (R) *block and evade respectively*.  We still have on-landing quick T (not a big difference).  Same for on-landing TR (straight to explosion.  Not much to say about air L1+o right now.  You can bypass the delay to Tether out of an s4a by using L1+x canceled into Tether.


So let's see here...CANCEL TESTING:

s1 - Block, Lock, Tether, Jump, Magic and Evade cancels.

s2 -Block, Lock, Tether, Jump, Magic and Evade cancels.

s3 -Block, Lock, Tether, Jump, Magic and Evade cancels.

s4a - Block, Lock, Jump, Magic and Evade cancels.

s4b *rage* - Block, Lock, Jump, Magic and Evade cancels.

s5 *rage* - Block, Lock, Jump, Magic and Evade cancels.

s6 *rage* - Block, Evade, Jump, Magic and Evade cancels.

t1 - Block, Lock, Tether, Jump, Magic and Evade cancels. *gains bounce with rage*

t2 *rage; bounce* - Block, Lock, Tether, Jump, Magice and Evade cancels.

t3 *rage; bounce* -...

t0 - Block, Lock, Magic and Evade cancels.

T - Lock and Jump cancels.

(Unarmed) o1 - Block, Lock, Tether, Magic and Evade cancels.

(Unarmed) o1a *punch 1; switch* - Block, Lock, Tether, Magic and Evade cancels.

(Unarmed) o2 *punch 2* - Block, Lock, Tether, Magic and Evade cancels.

(Unarmed) o3 *punch 3; stun* -  Block, Lock, Tether, Magic and Evade cancels.

(Sword) o1 - Block, Tether, Jump, Magic and Evade cancels.

(Sword) o2 - Block, Tether, Jump, Magic and Evade cancels.

(Sword) o3 *stun* - Block, Tether, Jump, Magic and Evade cancels.

(Sword) o4 *stun/knockback* - Block, Tether, Jump, Magic and Evade cancels.

(Sword) O - Block, Lock, Tether, Jump, Magic and Evade cancels.

(Sword) o1a *switch; two hits that both bounce* - Jump and Tether cancels *great set-up for OH*

(Javelin) o1 - Block, Lock, Tether, Jump, Magic and Evade cancels.

(Javelin) O *trampling, knocback* - Block, Lock, Tether, Jump, Magic and Evade cancels.

Tether - ...

air s1 - Block, Lock *LC*, Magic and Tether cancels.

air s2 - Block, Lock *LC*, Magic and Tether cancels.

air s3 - Block, Lock *LC*, Magic and Tether cancels.

air t1 - Block, Lock *LC*, Magic and Tether cancels.

(Unarmed) air o1 - ...

(Sword) air o1 - Tether

(Sword) air O - ...

(Javelin) air o1 - 

(Javelin) air O - 

CoC - ...

TR - ...

L1+x - Tether and Magic cancels.

(Unarmed) L1+o - Lock and Magic cancels.

(Unarmed) L1+o,o - Lock, Magic and Evade cancels.

(Sword) L1+o - ...

(Javelin) L1+o - ...

air CoC - ...

air TR - ...

air L1+x - ...

(Unarmed) air L1+o - ...

(Sword) air L1+o - ...

(Javelin) air L1+o - ...

(counter) s6 - Block, Evade and Jump cancels.

(counter) Slash *knockback* (Sword) - Block, Evade, Magic and Jump cancels.

(counter) Uppercut *launch* (Unarmed) - Lock, Evade and Magic cancels.

(counter) Javelin O - Same

This still leaves s4b, s5, s6, t2, t3, counters, grabs, rage specials, Javelin, Sword, rage dump, AI boundaries, ring-out, forced locks, blocking/parrying, juggles, infinities, collisions, etc. to test.  Spell cancels, i-frame testing and more.


You can only land one bomb on a foe at once (even with multiple hits).  A Satyr Grunt will try to get its weapon back if you don't pick it up.  If hit with CG, they are confused about the weapon loss before going for it again.  Their grab doesn't seem to allow the others to dogpile on you.  Rage air CoC has the extra swing and Rage air TR leads to the extra hit.  Unarmed L1+o just knocks foes away (not quite knockback).  Sword L1+o can be moved even while locked with (R) it seems.  With (L) if not locked.  Managed to crash the demo.  Pulling the Sword from the ground with R1 is spotty, but it hurts those near you. There seem to be instances of delayed death glitches (after letting them recover from reversals that should kill).


One of the uses of Tether's slaps is to do weak hits that will build meter well before the target can die. 

Battering Ram is the mid-grab (gold halo) and torso rip/headrip share the grab kill (red halo).  Tether square is slaps, X is CG, circle is Toss and triangle is Wrecking Ball.  Circle mashing still puts skulls against walls when you Battering Ram a wall (instant kill). Neither t1 nor air t1 seem to bounce targets anymore (not when grounded anyway).  Forced targeting is still a problem even beyond GoWIII (attacking is also an issue as it wants to tell you where to attack even with an analog saying otherwise).


Being able to just be in the air for an air-to-ground Tether pulling foes into air OS (or mid-grab/grab kill for halo cases) is a bit much.  Still seems to be i-frames in CG and many other grab variants.  Even OH slam perhaps.  Not sure about 'Tether'.  Weapon discards like the Sword and Javelin seem to have them.  Obviously magic.  Probably the rage dump. Battering Ram isn't too good for meter building and the extra hits fail to do this as well (lame).


There is a delay before you can sword toss (notable after getting the weapon from the ground). Like it is still being loaded.  You can block the grab attempt.  Pathetic.  Crashed the game again (during WB to OH infinite with rage just gained).  Because OH does hold on to Tether, the normal OH infinite is out while air OS infinite is about the same as usual (aside from falling faster, grabs being slower, targeting, etc.). I'll try rage dump on Satyr Captain, Fire Talos and Juggernaut. No signs of the CG to t0 or s6 I'd expected (I know I saw CG to t0 in a video *must have been a glitch*).


Now for Satyr Captain study. You can block the grab. Tether will always use CG when he cannot be grabbed.  I was able to work around the 'death animation' of the Satyr Captain by letting him recovery from red halo then using air grabs (taking him to gold halo) and glitch tossing *break out* him then air grab killing him (for orb drops) where he got up and died again.  I wonder if I can repeatedly launch and air OS for more orbs.  Lets find out.


...Try as I might, I kept getting different glitches.  Grabs are incredibly weak on the Satyr Captain. I've seen the Captain reach red halo and stay there now. The L3+R3 does one shot a fresh Satyr Captain.  Checkpoints are spotty.  I've had one for Satyr Captain, but also cases where it doesn't trigger.  I've seen Satyr Captains walk around with their red halo (wander) now as well.  There is NOTHING the Satyr Captain can do to escape LC.  It sets up OH and air OS easily.  Problem is, they're both pathetically weak.  At least he is super weak to juggling when off his feet.  See double bombs on Satyr Captain using L1+x.


Javelin Grunt time.  If I had not mentioned it already, Unarmed L1+o auto rushes if near a foe.  Apparently 'switches' can happen after s4b, s5 and even t2.  No switch special for Javelin. Javelin O can be buffered without o1 in some cases (out of an evade, on-landing, during Ascension, etc.).  It can also cancel "T". Using O during the start-up of Ascension allows a semi-Spike (GoW1 aerial knockback).  Using (L) and (R), I can usually ignore the lock just as with tossing the sword.  The L1+o air discard glitch for the Javelin doesn't allow for another discard sadly.  Because of how CG works now, you cannot use ground-to-air CG, air-to-air CG or air-to-ground CG.  Just ground-to-ground.  No mount for SP at all it seems.  Of upi dpn't do the mashing for the Charbydis, it kills you instantly.


Fire Talos time.   He has no long range (just medium) and cannot charge.  He is wide open to AI boundary abuse and ranged antics.  If you go above, he cannot follow.  Also, his Ares Inferno is based on damage progression (how near death he is).  You can skip this fight and the next on if you like.  Nothing is stopping you.  He is immune to Tether (no CG).  None of his moves are unblockable.  Not even Ares Inferno.  What's the point of telling us to evade or jump during a BLOCKABLE move?  Ridiculous.  They had better fix this.  It is VERY easy to game the system for MP orbs and L3+R3 likely one shots the Fire Talos too (when near enough death to recover and be gamed for full rage, he dies like the rest).  You can actually even parry Ares Inferno if you time it right.  Allowing a skilled case like that is fine (maybe even air blocking as a dirty trick), but regular ground blocks?  Come on.  Seems like you cannot 'switch' to the heavy javelin toss with s2, s3 or s4b.  Follows s5 and t2 fine.  You can just stand still and double jump through Ares Inferno.  Absolutely shameful.  I was going to go for a 2K hit combo to test the limit to the descriptors, but slipped up at 535 hits.  Oh well.


Juggernaut time.  Let's try for L3+R3.  Last hit of his club flurry is unblockable, but tires him out.  He stands and stomps (blockable).  If you block one of the first four swings, you interrupt him.  The fifth won't do it and the sixth is the ender.  Can't even air block it.  A true unblockable.  Half dead sees him break the club (might not be unblockable).  The grab is unblockable.  You cannot damage kill him in the demo, but if you get to full meter, you can rage dump to instant kill him.  Hit count will not work while he is in 'red halo' (likely to prevent easy mashing for high combos).  I'm pretty sure the L1+x gains a dropped bomb along with the searing core when in 'rage'.  Crashed the demo again.  Third time, I believe.  Might be linked to the auto-activation of rage.  Yay.


Satyr Grunt (Sword) - Has a 2x swing *close* and rushing slash *far*.

Satyr Grunt (Unarmed) - Has dropkick *close* and grab *close* (constant damage until escape and hurts him to escape).

Satyr Grunt (Javelin) -  Push *close* and vault *range*

Satyr Captain - 2x ranged whip *close*, Turning Slash *close*, Evade to grab for slap to overhead *counter*, block, rush to slap to overhead *ranged*

Fire Talos - Thrust *close*.  Double swing *close*.  Triple pound. *range*  Ares Inferno *two-third and one-third life*

Juggernaut - Club swing *close*.  Club flurry *close*.  Club shatter *half dead*.  Stomp *close*.  Backhand *close*.  Grab. *close*


Doing a grab only run shouldn't be hard.  Same for Unarmed only, Blades only, Javelin only and Sword only.

Why not do NGR+, NBR+, PAIN+ and the like?  Let's give it a go, shall we?  Perhaps counter all day, every day  Stun lock abuse?  Sure.


Grab only time.  Slaps and CG were questionable territory.   I opted to avoid them.  Lots of WB and OH (some tossing) for the Grunts.  LC into air OS (or OH) until time for the QTE against the Captain.  Noticed that the heal/harm of LC works like the lever in Pandora where if you are closer to one side, it will pull to it.  If close to full break, back you go.  If close to half heal, it finishes it for you (when still holding L2 at least).  If close to full heal, it will continue.  Can't really do anything with Fire Talos.  Skipped.  Can't really do the Juggs like this either.  Lame.  Tested L3+R3 without stopping this time.  He...doesn't die.  The demo won't let him die without the QTE.


NGR+ time.   Plume grouping was just chipping.  Easier to just use Sword O.  If you go for rage, you can just mash square (or triangle), abuse CoC or TR, etc.  Not much to it.  Could just use L3+R3 on the Captain, but instead LC (or T) into square whoring (or triangle whoring) juggle.  PS button still pauses.  Pity.  Spear tosses were meh for ring-out here.  Easier to get the sword and let its mashing do the trick.  With rage one could destroy them all or use Valor to ring-out.  Parry whoring does the job as well (counter with Sword, Javelin, Unarmed and Blades should all do the trick). Circle whoring with the sword on Fire Talos.  Yep. Alternatively, square hits, maybe L1+x lockdown, rage for Valor/Spirit, etc.  Damage kill.  Decimate the Satyr Grunts with rage?  Or maybe ring-out.  Rage.  Juggs time.  Can't finish him without the QTE.  Just lock him with the sword or use some square hits and L1+x to tie him up until I have rage (then square whoring with some parries maybe).  Not much to it.  Just avoid the grab.


NOTE: The Sword Toss just seems to bounce off Fire Talos.


NBR+ time.  Lots of grabbing to abuse i-frames.  LC into slaps for rage and 't,t,t' whoring for QTE.  Toss everyone off the cliff (WB, OH, circle toss, etc.).  Pity about alt.OH and OH redirection.  Sword circle whoring.  Leap over Inferno.  QTE.  Rage antics for Grunts (rage dump, Valor, TR lvl2, etc.).  Managed to get beyond the Jugg trigger by keeping to the left side while being quick.  Cute.  Didn't let me skip it though (obviously).  Sword lock-down is fine to reach QTE.  Rage can be achieved easily enough for the same end.  Maybe even use magic for i-frames and decent damage.


Unarmed only.  Air Toss sword into distance.  Won't be allowing grabs for WW runs in this case.  I could disallow blocks on grounds of it being done by the Blades, but there is no need for all that.  Rush whoring, kick whoring, etc.  Really though, get them grouped along a wall and begin stomp into punches for repeated wall splats and decent damage over time.  Couldn't kill him with melee.  Just wasn't enough damage before recovery.  Tried his mid-grab (can aim it for the final toss *neat*).  Nevermind.  He eventually stops recovering, I guess.  You can let go of L2 too during the heal so long as it is almost done.  Rush for ring-out.  Kicks weren't working.  **bleep** kicking, rushes, etc.  Can't kill him like this (not reasonably).  QTE comes quick though.  Rush for ring-outs on trash.  Juggs gets the same business as Fire Talos.  This run would be more fun if it allowed things that don't show the blades (Battering Ram, some QTEs, Tosses, etc.).


Sword only.  Lots of O.  Some 'o,o,o,o'.  Can't really use the switch special like this.  I can use the counter though.  Get Captain in the corner for the same.  Lots of mid-grabs come up.  Curious.  Circle whoring or O for ring-outs.  Circle whoring for QTE or kill him fast enough for the damage kill.  More circle whoring for ring-outs.  More circle whoring for the QTE.  Simples.  Seems like I'm the only one to find the third EXP chest.  Rather than going straigh (or left for the other two chests), go right through the opening.


Javelin only.  First bit doesn't matter.  No javelin.  Get it.  Begin chucking them.  Use "O" for knockback with ring-out intended.  Apparently I can just tap (spear toss) and hold (heavy toss) and repeat while in the air to stay up for a VERY long time out of the reach of melee using foes and just pound them with spears (heavy ones stunning large targets and knocking away smaller ones).  This...will be exploitable as all Hell even without broken stuns.  Try it out on groups.  Works fine aside from pole vault hitting me when too low.  Use this technique to quickly spam light and heavy spears while keeping range on the off-screen Juggernaut.  Too easy.


Time for PAIN+.  Obviously I cannot lose upgrades.  Can't use any WWs (even Unarmed).  I'll avoid specials.  Counters are not allowed, but blocks are.  Grabs are fine.  Spells are not.  LC is off-limits.  No 'rage'.  Should be simple aside from holding off from landing hits when I get too close to filling meter.  No chests, but who needs them?  Going without taking a hit is the only way to pretend I ever needed them.   So lots of grabs, tosses, etc. to control the fight without getting too much rage (keeping back when it needed to cool down).  QTE kills where I could.  So long as I don't land any RAGE hits (even explosions *on other foes*), I'm fine.  Launches to OH or air OS on the Captain, but it is slow compared to just juggling him.  Tosses off the cliff.  Big surprise.  Slap him and parry.  Ignore Inferno (leap through).  Get QTE and finish him.  More tossing off a cliff.  Handle the Jugg like the Talos. Take breaks away when too close to 'rage'.


So what's left?  An attempt at damage testing, I suppose.


It takes 18 hits to kill a Satyr Grunt with s1.  With rage the whole time, it also takes 18 hits.  I don't see a reason to suspect any damage increase for the hits themselves.  If this were Easy, tradional s1 (2 damage) would be four damage and the Grunt would have a  72HP or less.  That's too high for a grunt.  If the values were set to Normal though, it would be about 36HP.  35HP is a number that is not unusual for a foe of this type.  I suspect that is accurate and that my s1 hits deal 2 damage each.  I need to figure out an odd numbered hit though (if not finding a 1 damage hit).  If the fire death explosions actually deal damage, it is probably only 1 damage (if any at all).  Air s1 is likely to be the same.  I expect similar damage conventions, so s2 should be the same, s3 should be double and air t1 should be 2/2.


Javelin o1 seems to be the same as s1.  And O too (so just gains heavy hits and trample rather than damage).  Wall collisions don't seem to do any damage at all.  Bad sign.  Think I found a sweet spot along the cliffs, but whatever.  Only way I've found to break 'Tether' is getting an obstacle between you and the 'agent'. The discard might be a 10 hit move (for one target) with one damage per hit.  Could CG deal 1 or even no damage?  Let's see here.  Game crash.  Seems like the Captain might have more than 100HP.  32 hits to kill with the spear toss.  So do they have 32HP or is this dealing ugly damage values? I'll go with the later for now.  Attacks like this are annoying.  Maybe some of the hits aren't even counting (not the first time for that).  WB/OH explosions (rage) might deal 5 damage.  Hard to say.


Satyr Grunts don't regain HP from recovery.  CG sort of feels like 4 damage right now.  I doubt these values are dead-on, but it gives an idea of the relation between the various damages one deals.  Does Sword toss really only deal 4 damage and stun?  I should mention that mid-grab is not accurate for the gold halo.  These are 'stuns' that damage isn't necessarily related to.  Not too sure how the system works, but Sword Toss works great to build that 'meter' up on foes that do have a stun state.  Sword Toss hits for weird damage.  Might be 1.5/1.5 or 2/2 or something like that.  Whatever, I don't feel like worry too much about being exact this early.  It'll be easier when I know the HP of foes for sure and have some damage values I know for a fact (more so knowing an odd damage case and an even case *better still, a 1 damage hit*).


So now o1 (Sword) is the same as s1 (BoC) too.  Cute.  Game crashed.  Let's test T (should be the same).  Maybe o3 and o4.  "o2" should be the same.  I've now seen a glitch where I take a WW from the ground and a Grunt passes by right after and also gets a weapon back.  Exploiting such a thing would grant lots of weapon discards.  Worked with a bit.  Not hard to do.  Just let him look confused and begin the sprinted timed such that when you are pulling out the weapon, he passes by (and gets a copy).  Only L1 at the lowest (start) of a climbing section seems to let go.  T is the same as s1.  No surprise there.  Air s3 should be twice as strong. Seems to be the case.  Air t1 should be like two s1's hitting at a time (2/2).  Just so.


t0 demoted to 3 damage?  So using it and s1, I can get my values more accurate.  35HP seems to be exactly what the Satyr Grunts have for HP.  Maybe it isn't just having an obstacle block Tether, but pulling foes into walls (wall collision) for the breakout.  t0 can hit twice, but I don't yet know if it is a weak hit and a strong one, a strong one and a fake one or two strong ones.  Seems like it might be two strong ones.  A callback to GoWII, it appears.  So t0 can hit twice, but usually just once.  I imagine Spirit will be in the same boat, just stronger still.  It would be frustrating to test though (have to be in rage and an unknown variable comes up *explosion*).  t3 should be 12 damage if it hits once.  Let's try. Game Crash.  Lovely.  Happens a lot with Wrecking Ball.  Seems like Valor is 8.  Rush might be 3 or 4 damage.  Needed to test more, but it crashed again.  I've had enough of that sort of thing for one session.  Don't know that I want or need to do the rest right now.  Too much bother.  I've got work soon anway.

Message 63 of 75 (5,104 Views)
Treasure Hunter
Registered: 01/15/2006
5836 posts

Re: GoW:SP ideas

Jan 16, 2013

I suppose it should be said again that 'gold halo' is not a mid-grab.  It is a stun state that only appear to occur based on WW hits (different hits lead to stun states at different rates and likely each foe has their own rate *needs testing*).  Let's test that on Grunts and Captains as Fire Talos and Juggernaut don't suffer from stuns (pity).  To note it, PAIN (because there likely will not be a PAIN+) shall not enjoy the use of this system as WWs will not be allowed.  NUR/NUR+ will have it though.  Have to test whether there is a shake-off aspect to the affect or it just builds with each hit (as with 'ice in Bayonetta' versus petrification in GoW).


From brief testing, it seems like how rapidly you land the hits DOES matter, so they do shake it off.  As for whether each has different rates (likely), that remains to be seen with further testing.   Game crashed during Javelin testing.  Lovely.  On to Sword and finally unarmed.  Due to how it wears off so quickly, I might not abe able to test some moves (left with "...").  Good God the meter needs reworking.  Some things that should give meter don't, not all hits take away meter, it stays too long for the wrong reasons, doesn't stay for the right ones, gives way too much for too little, doesn't have parry/evade accounted for yet, etc.  I can get full rage off each full HP grunt before they die and use rage dump on them to make them a chest and nothing can stop me during the i-frames of WB to OH infinite.  I can't cancel Tether with it, but WB releases them anyway.  We're not talking a rage for each fight, we're talking multiple per fight.  Their system is not designed for once every other fight at all.  It drops between fights as you should all be aware of, so this talk was nonsense.  Getting HP and MP refills will be all too easy like this even without chest.


Kind of annoying that we cannot evade forward or back while in Tether.  Targeting a corpse is bad.  L3+R3 targetting a WW in the ground is just silly.   Wall collision sticks out too far and there is too little of it in the demo build (I don't expect this to change).  Pretty easy to Tether into WB to OH infinite for full rage and dump (even on fresh targets then grab kill the weak one).  I want to see how many WW drops I can get from just one Satyr Grunt before it dies using the glitch I noted earlier with copying WWs.  Let's dupe.  Because of targeting, the GoWII technique for getting grabs (OH) to land on a Cerberus Seed is used.  That is to say, tossing foes away and aiming the grab towards them (away from the group).  So the duping.  Let's see many as you can stand to farm.  Too bad the trick doesn't allow you to leave spares on the ground.  That would be nifty. The air L1+o with Unarmed fills rage.  An oversight, I believe.


Though it is easy enough to grab **bleep**, I can now easily enough get foes to 'stun' quickly.  At least, the Satyr Grunt.  Time for the Satyr Captain.  Let us see if he is different in terms of resistance (number of hits for a 'stun' to take).  I've now seen the game target chests over my analog priority.  Lovely.  R1 objects of all kinds will not only pull Tether, but regular attacks if you're too close.  Not looking like there is a big difference between the stun requirement for Grunts and the Captain.  You can keep a foe locked with stun as the meter resets while they are in the gold halo.  No, it seems like Captains are exactly the same for stuns as Grunts.  Their 'stun grab' doesn't allow for an instant kill though.  Great for collisions.  Not being able to fight the Captain among Grunts is a bore.  Can't make use of this fact.


If it wasn't clear before, being in 'rage' makes t1 and air t1 regain their bounce proficiency.  Also, as before, it is quite easy to, even on these settings, keep a foe like this (or Juggs) alive in a state of recovery and falling back into red halo to regain full rage meter so that you can abuse it however you like (using dumps on other foes *instant killing them and getting HP drops*, just slapping, waiting and slapping again to keep the meter active while getting chance MP orb drops, etc.).  Again, all too easy.  I've now seen Blades hits cause stun, but it takes absurd amounts of hits to do, so whatever.  I'm not worrying about that.  Just note this.  Might be a rage property for all I know.  You can't land that many hits without letting the meter fill. The stun grab for Captain allows for a bounced state juggles with the likes of s1 right after it.  Same for Punch 3.  They're not high enough for OH with just s1, but 's,s' suffices.  I'm sure there are other cass where you down with a hit, but s1 can juggle out of it to get them airborne again.  Trick works with Uarmed o1 as well.  Just o,s,s,R1.  Works for toss (though that would also have the option of bouncing the foe off the wall).


Satyr Grunt *probably 35HP*

(Unarmed) o1 - N/A

(Unarmed) air o1 - 5

(Unarmed) Punch 1 - 5

(Unarmed) Punch 2 - 5

(Unarmed) Punch 3 - 5 *seems iffy*

(Unarmed) L1+o - 5

(Unarmed) air L1+o - N/A

(Unarmed) Counter - N/A

(Sword) o1 - 10

(Sword) o2 - 10

(Sword) o3 - 10

(Sword) o4 - 10

(Sword) air o1 - 7 *perhaps because of rapid hits*

(Sword) O - 15 hits? *not exact testing as I don't want to get into each hit or even just the ender*

(Sword) air O - 15 hits? *same deal; note that the downward swing and upperswing both have strong stuns*

(Sword) L1+o - 1

(Sword) air L1+o - 1

(Sword) Switch - 4 *hits, not uses*

(Sword) Counter -10 *?*

(Javelin) o1 - 10

(Javelin) air o1 - 10

(Javelin) O - 2

(Javelin) air O - 2

(Javelin) L1+o - N/A

(Javelin) air L1+o - N/A


Satyr Captain *perhaps 120HP; needs more testing*



I could and probably will test for approximate HP for the Captain, Fire Talos and Juggernaut.  Collisions and more as well. Maybe approximate worth (out of 100 units) each hit that fills the meter is worth.  Things for later.  I don't much want to be doing that now.  This testing was fruitful enough.  I need to sort out more about damage, HP, etc. before getting on with collisions.  Rage isn't matter that concerns itself with all this.

Message 64 of 75 (5,075 Views)
Treasure Hunter
Registered: 01/15/2006
5836 posts

Re: GoW:SP ideas

Jan 18, 2013

So let's see here:

s1 - 2

s2 - 2

s3 - 4

s4a - 10

s4b - 2/2

s5 - 2/2

s6 - 8

t0 - 6/6

t1 - 3

t2 - 4/4

t3 - 12/12

T - 2

air s1 - 2

air s2 - 2

air s3 - 4

air t1 - 2/2

L1+s - 2/2/2/4 - rage hit - 20 *?*

air L1+s - Nine 1 damage attacks - rage hit - 3 *?*

L1+t - 2/5/5/8 *20* rage hit - 2 *?*

air L1+t - multiple light hits for 2 damage and an 8 damage ender - rage hit -2 *?*

L1+x - 4/3 *7* rage hit - ?

air L1+x - 4/3 rage hit -?

Counter - 8

Rage Dump - Instant kill *?*

WW pick-up - 4

(Unarmed) o1 -2

(Unarmed) air o1 - 2

(Unarmed) Punch 1 - 1

(Unarmed) Punch 2 - 1 *can only be input when punch 1 lands*

(Unarmed) Punch 3 - 1 *is actually just the second input swinging again when punch 2 lands*

(Unarmed) L1+o - 2

(Unarmed) air L1+o - 2

(Unarmed) Counter -2

(Sword) o1 - 2

(Sword) o2 - 2

(Sword) o3 - 2

(Sword) o4 - 2

(Sword) air o1 - 2

(Sword) O - 2 damage hits

(Sword) air O - 2 damage hits

(Sword) switch - 2/2

(Sword) Counter - 4

(Sword) L1+o - 2/2

(Sword) air L1+o - 2/2

(Javelin) o1 - 2

(Javelin) O - 2

(Javelin) L1+o - 1 per hit *about a limit of 10 hits per target tops*

(Javelin) air L1+o - 1 per hit

(Fire Spell) 11/5/14 (3 hits for 30 damage) *not too sure of the break down*

(Tether) CG - 0 damage for disarms - 5 damage otherwise

(Tether) s1 - 2

(Tether) s2 - 2

(Tether) WB - 5

(Tether) Toss - 3 *0 damage if it hits a wall* and 5 *out of BR*

(Tether) OH 'Slam' - 0 *u herd me*

(Tether) OH 'Pull' - 4

(Tether) air OS 'STRP' - 7

(Tether) air OS 'Slam' - 4

(Tether) Battering Ram - N/A *instant kill on walls; otherwise see 'Toss'*

(Tether) 720 spin -0

(Tether) Captain QTE - kill

(Tether) Torso rip/head rip - kill

(Tether) Talos QTE - kill

(Tether) Juggernaut QTE - kill

(Reversal) Unarmed Grunt grab - 5

(Reversal) Juggernaut grab - 10

(Rage explosion) Fire Kills - 0 *?*

(Rage explosion) t0 -5

(Rage explosion) t3 -5

(Rage explosion) WB - 5

(Rage explosion) OH - 5

(Rage explosion) Rage dump - 2 *?*


Walls - 0 damage

Object - N/A *not in demo*

Knockback - 0/0 *Target/Agent*

WB - 0/6

OH -  0/6

Battering Ram - 0/3 *repeat hits seem to be of lesser quality...perhaps one damage each; so 6 of them would be 8 damage*

Toss - 0/6

BR Toss - 0/15

720 toss - N/A *not testable as Captain spawns alone*

STRP - 0/0 *no surprise*

Slam - N/A *not testable*


So it seems like the Satyr Grunts have 36HP rather than 35HP as I had been assuming while using old figures.  It is going to help A LOT to know the exact HP and have a 1 damage attack (much less three in a row that cause stun status for early testing subjects).  I can certainly make use of this in future testing.

"s4a" is stronger than expected.  "t1" is nerfed.  "t0" and "t3" can hit twice for their primary (no whip back for t3 as a bit of extra damage).  Rage explosions seem uniform in damage.  "t2" got buffed.  The apparent difference between air and ground CoC is rather large.  Especially with the rage ender. Ground TR's rage hit?  A whopping two damage?  What? This can't be right.  Whatever.

It is possible rage is altering the damage of the specials (unlike Normals) and throwing things off.  I don't care enough to keep contending with it. I'm puzzled by the rage version of L1+x.  Rather than being 10(4/3/3) as expected, it reduced the total of all three hits landing to 6 damage.  Stuns more and longer...but weaker?  Not even on equal footing? For what it is worth, s5 can link to the Counter of Unarmed (probably the same for the Sword *tested it and no it doesn't do the counter*).

Another dozen crashes.  Lovely.  And collisions are ruined.  Not quite GoS bad, but even worse than GoWIII.  Pathetic. Bunch of grab cases to test.  I'll have to get enemy HP tested before I can test some of these.  That still leaves rage meter work.  I'm exceedingly disappointed with the collision nerfing.

So OH slam now deals a whopping ZERO damage.  If you want to use foes for OH based collisions/explosions, LC into OH to set-up the Slam without dealing damage and execute OH.  To break out of Tether, you will need a wall to drag the foe into though as you cannot just 'let go' (which is plain stupid).  Time to test Juggs and Captain.  Need their HP first.  At least until they reach "O" or how much HP after recovery to reach red halo (as the kids call it these days) again.  Not sure I can get the exact HP of either considering their recovery rate and my testing method's damage being too slow.  I'm going to go ahead and just settle for HP to 'O' as such.

May as well test the Fire Talos while I'm in the neighborhood.  51 damage until first 'AI' (Ares Inferno).  50 *?* for second 'AI'.  31 more for 'red halo'.  Recovers 16 HP from red halo.  HP to death isn't clear.   Something like 132HP to red halo, I suppose.  More than 18HP.  Less than 24HP at red halo before damage kill.  Let's see if I can narrow that down.  20HP at red halo.  If all this is correct, Fire Talos has 152HP.  It's possible I messed up somewhere and it is 150HP, but they've used an unusual value before, so I can't rule it out.

Now for Juggs.  56HP for club break.  66HP for red halo.  Recovers 11HP from red halo.  More than 36HP in red halo state.  I'll have to step up my damage dealing game.  I don't think I'm going to get teh full damgae value on him.  His death state doesn't work properly in the demo.  Oh well.  Got what I came for (damage of reversing his grab).  Something like 122HP to red halo for this foe.

Back to the Satyr Captain.  96 HP for red halo.  Recovers 16HP.  19 HP in red halo state before death.  So it has something like 115HP.  Tested stun state damage, OH and air OS. Hmmm, the damage that should be there from air OS (4) *very weak* is gone when you use LC to set it up.  I should retest the OH damage on Satyr Grunts without it then.  OH wasn't affected. Extra air OS after the first weren't either.  Landing s1 prior to OH out of LC unglitched it.  I'll have to retest the Grunt case anyway.   Bother, bother, bother.  Back to Grunt to finish my testing of damage (that I'm willing to put up with). Still no damage.

Apparently Toss and BR Toss deal different damages.  Also, wall collisions cancel damage from both.  So that's nice.  Not only are wall collisions dealing zero damage, they can prevent damage in cases where the damage is dealt upon impact with the surface (rather than the instant the move is done).  I can't help but notice we cannot change the reticul of lock to other foes using (L) or (R) right now.  That's no good.  BR toss apparently deals 15 damage via collision versus the regular toss dealing only 6 damage. Also, hit detection for LC is iffy (misses a lot when too close).  Nevermind, (R) does move the reticule, just does not always work.  Curious.  Reversal of Grunt grab has no collision (no damage to test).

Individual hits that would net you rage DO NOT stack if you land said hit on multiple targets (decreased value in hitting groups versus just focusing on one to get rage).  It feels like rage halves (or worse) the value of rage gains with your attacks, but not grabs. *this doesn't alter 'rage' moves* Also, single inputs that land multiple times do not give extra rage either.

Because of OH dealing 0 damage and the wall collision from a toss dealing 0 damage while setting up OH and both netting you 10 of 100 units of rage (50 units needed for the auto-activation and 100 for rage dump and chance for MP orb drops), you can abuse the system yet again.  Even a near death foes can be abuse as needed for an HP chest (if not a chance at some MP).  Absurd.  Also, if it wasn't clear before, you cannot 'rage dump' while you are in the air.

Such a shame we don't have full control over our targeting (especially with grabs).  When you CAN wrestle control away and toss foes where you want them desite the efforts of the game...simply divine.  Heavenly, even.  A whole new world.  This said, combo hit count doesn't seem to drop when spamming world weapon attacks (even as they hit nothing).  Let's try for 2K hits before putting the demo to rest, shall we?  Javelin spam time.  Abusing the system on Fire Talos.

Just go on the rocks just beyond his reach and spam Javelin o1 over and over and over again (once he has used his second AI).  He won't be able to attack you up there as his triple pound will get interrupted by his red halo which will glitch out.  Mash for 2K hits.  Simple.  Amusing that the hit count remembers the last few numbers.  Doesn't tell you how much each descriptor is worth.  Maybe it is just my TV though.  Not all of the screen is visible on my set-up.  I'm tempted to go to 10K, but they've never done anything at that point (100K and beyond for GoWII and GoWIII).  I don't plan on mashing circle all **bleep** day and don't have a turbo controller for the job.  That test will have to wait.  As with older entries, the last proper descriptor is "Impossible".


s1 - 5

s2 - 5

s3 - 5

s4a -10

s4b - 5

s5 - 5

s6 - 10

t0 -2.5

t1 - 2.5

t2 - 2.5

t3 -2.5

T - 10

air s1 -5

air s2 - 5

air s3 - 5

air t1 - 5

L1+s - 2.5 per hit *special case that gains per hit and per foe hit in a given strike; worth 0 per hit with rage*

air L1+s - 5

L1+t - 2.5/2.5/10 *rage hit does nothing*

air L1+t - 2.5 per small hit and 5 for the ender

L1+x - 5

air L1+x - 5

Counter - 10

Rage Dump - Uses full meter up

(Unarmed) o1 - 0

(Unarmed) air o1 - 0

(Unarmed) Punch 1 - 0

(Unarmed) Punch 2 - 0

(Unarmed) Punch 3 - 0

(Unarmed) L1+o - 0

(Unarmed) air L1+o - 2.5

(Unarmed) Counter - 0

(Sword) o1 - 0

(Sword) o2 - 0

(Sword) o3 - 0

(Sword) o4 - 0

(Sword) air o1 - 0

(Sword) O - 0

(Sword) air O - 0

(Sword) switch - 0

(Sword) Counter - 0

(Sword) L1+o - 0

(Sword) air L1+o - 0

(Javelin) o1 - 0

(Javelin) O - 0

(Javelin) L1+o - 0

(Javelin) air L1+o - 0

(Tether) CG - 10

(Tether) s1 - 5

(Tether) s2 - 5

(Tether) WB - 10

(Tether) Toss - 10

(Tether) OH 'Slam' - 10

(Tether) OH 'Pull' - 0

(Tether) air OS 'STRP' - 10

(Tether) air OS 'Slam' - 0

(Tether) Battering Ram - 0

(Tether) BR toss - 0

(Tether) 720 spin - 0

(Tether) Captain QTE -20

(Tether) Captain CG - 0

(Tether) Torso rip/head rip - 10

(Tether) Talos QTE - 100 *probably just for the demo*

(Tether) Juggernaut QTE - 0 *likely a demo oversight*

(Reversal) Unarmed Grunt grab - 0

(Reversal) Juggernaut grab - 0

(Fire Spell) 0



NOTE: Not sure I want to test this.  Like damage values of enemy attacks, this would be a bother.

Just know that not doing jack drops it, doing most grabs will pause it (not the Tether state), taking most hits will drop it, fire spell pauses it, etc.

Message 65 of 75 (5,051 Views)
Treasure Hunter
Registered: 01/15/2006
5836 posts

Re: GoW:SP ideas

Jan 25, 2013
Might update with more copypasta from other versions of this thread (for findings):

"Just realized that, besides from the use of Tosses at walls and OH to do 0 damage while building 'reduction resistant' rage meter, CG used for disarms (so Grunts with something other than barehands) are noted as 0 damage while building 10 (of 100) meter. You have i-frames in most of the animations concerned with this process and they fairly quickly get their weapon back. Ideally this would allow repeated CG on a group of such targets to get meter before using the rage dump or slapping for MP orbs *I don't think CG can cause drops, but should test it*. That or just use them to build up meter for the instant kill of another foe *netting an HP chest's worth of orbs*.

Let's see how exploitable this is in practice. Works fine with three or more. Barely with two. Seems you are pretty close to impossible to harm during Tether evades and can spam them far more rapidly than regular evades for constant i-frames. Such that you turn AI off like Artemis Tricking used to for all but bosses and Archers. Telling. Just hold (R) and watch it work. Also, holding in one direction slowly moves you and the foe away if you wanted to reposition without interference and couldn't just use (L) for the job. CG sometimes does NOT want to come out on inputs. I'm also pretty sure the duping trick that lets you get a copy of a WW picked up by an enemy can work for multiple enemies going for the same weapon at the same time (thus arming two or more rather than one).

I forgot to test a few cancels, but whatever. The BR note about collision wouldn't be entirely accurate in terms of damage potential because BR Toss deals more damage than the regular toss. Note this. Air CG doesn't seem to build rage meter on Captains. The CG still gets meter when blocked though. Oh, and it seems ground CG of Captains doesn't deal any damage (just the air version). It still builds meter and probably has i-frames.

Feel free to CG **bleep** at them (block or not) to get full rage in ten uses. Haven't found a convenient 'rage meter' pause yet, but combo meter is another story. CG builds up rage even if it evades into Tether (while ignoring the Tether with i-frames). CG cannot drop MP orbs even at full meter though. So that exploit is out. Obviously LC set's up OH which can lead to CG with regards to zero damage exploiting. Without letting go of Tether quickly or the foe picking up their weapon quickly though, you cannot make use of Grunts indefinitely as such.

Going back to the SP demo, the weird two headed chap Kratos is fighting is, as said before, likely the Life Cycle user (possibly not), but exercises ice powers that I did not notice before."

The next demo will bring more testing (to report to Papy).
Message 66 of 75 (5,013 Views)
Treasure Hunter
Registered: 01/15/2006
5836 posts

Re: GoW:SP ideas

Feb 1, 2013

Have to update the main posts with newer info from SP demo testing, new demo news, etc.  Won't try too hard with MP coverage though.

This besides the Manticore video.

Should be a 30 minute video.  This isn't 30 minutes.  Let's see here:

0:02 Magaera QTE.  Looks almost like they're implying she has the life cycle.

0:05 Looks like juggling of Satyr Grunts in a prison (Tartarus, I imagine).  The next monster (boss) doesn't look like Charbydis.  Curious.  Then it seems to show what might be a Hecatoncheir.

0:07 Kratos in the prison with re-skinned Satyr Grunts.  Gets hit by Hecatoncheir much like with Colossus. Then fighting with more Satyrs in this prison of the Furies.  Head rips one.  Crash landing.

0:13 Yep.  Re-skinned Satyr Grunts in a prison as they told us long ago.  Not sure why we have a gold aura on the Blades.  That was only for the BoA in their godly state.  Very strange that the stun state is coming up from Blades strikes.  Change to the stun system, I take it.  That or they're using a possession for 'stunning blades' (gold).  Very unlikely.

0:24 All done?  Guess there won't be much changes to the SP beyond the next demo, eh?

0:29 Brood of the creature from before.  Reminds me of Skorpius and Scylla.  Tether into grab kill.  Hades Nymph toss.  Too bad they don't seem to explode.  The bright green isn't for me.

0:30 Back in my day, we actually controlled these segments.

0:32 There's the creature.  Could be a number of different beasts from Tartarus.  Hard to guess.

0:50 Cyclops Berserker coming up the rear with a...steal club?

0:53 I have no idea what I'm looking at here.

1:03 What the f***?  Weird looking re-skin of Satyr Grunts.

1:13 Cyclops time.  Standing awfully erect.  More like GoS/CoO. Still a Berserker with that kick to punch move.

1:19 I was thinking this was just part of Hecatoncheir somehow, but I'm not sure...

1:23 Yeah, it was definitely not part of it, but is certainly some sort of other boss.  Is it an original character or their version of something like Kampe?  Lamia shouldn't be here.  It looks male though.  Can't be Echidna as such either.  What male monster is there that isn't just made up? Kampe is tied to Echidna who is tied to Python. I don't know.  Apollo on the Omphalos Stone takes her out with arrows apparently.  I don't remember that.  Sybaris is also tied to Kampe, but Delphi too.  Lots of relations between these gals.  Ties to Scylla as well.  And none of this relates to his clearly male monster (that has a brood).

1:39 So now the WW discard can charge into the uppercut?  Seems to cause knockbacks in this case.  As for the talk of this large corpse...amusing.  Who is it?

1:52 Kratos in bondage.  I'm sure some will be pleased.

2:16 You bet your **bleep**, son.  I'll crush them all.  No mercy.

2:39 Gold orbs?  Rage?  Doesn't keep with the system they've made though.  Fuel for WWs?  I remember in MP they spoke of a 30 second time limit, but SP didn't seem to have a limit for them.

2:44 Jailer with back-up.

2:47 More trash.  I was hoping for the walls to be closing in in classic fashion.

2:59 Smashes through to find...a MP champion...

3:29 Three to four times a fight?  The whole fight...or more times than noted with 'rage dumping'.  This is absurd.  Magaera is just chilling out above this area?  Odd.

3:35 I don't know about this 'strategy' talk for it, but I do know it is too readily abused and that it locks away what was already there before giving it back to appear useful while not actually doing what a 'rage' does in GoW history of mechanics.

3:41 Cyclops Desert King gut split?  Too bad entrails don't fall out.  Where's the eye pull?  This is a Berserker.  I want that eye to come out.

3:57 There are supposed to be three.  Is one of them dead in this entry?  Also, they were allies of the Olympians in the Great War.  Is that being changed?  What's going on here?  Who the Hell is this 'jailer' thing we're dealing with in the opening?

NOTE: I really get the feeling I'm going to grow weary of the 'Grunts', when I normally don't feel that way.


First 30 minutes of GoW:A :

1:09 Talk of Primordials?  Unexpected.  Who's who in all this?

1:44 Best not be implying that was Nyx taking a killing blow.

2:08 Exactly why didn't they find this to be an offense?

2:32 Why did he turn on him (after the fight)?  How are Furies going to overpower something stronger than any titan if we're going to bring them down?  This reminds me of the Fates.

3:00 Yes.  A prison build upon him.  Very amusing.

3:50 Looking pretty out of it, Kratos.  Better get your game face on, son.

4:30 Magaera speaks.  Let's hear what this silly woman has to say before we kill her and all her 'friends' (sisters).

4:49 Ah, so these creatures are the 'spawn' her of breasts.  I'd forgotten they intended for her to have this ability.

5:05 "Baby, you got real ugly" - Ash

5:13 Repeated slaps.  The worst offense.  There is only one way to settle this now.  She must die for our honor.

5:29 I suppose this is an early tutorial of promptless QTEs.

5:40 This is what you get for not using your mouth properly in battle.  Should have learned from Guts.

5:49 Base Blades.

6:03 This is just embarassing now.  Look her talk all this noise as a Kratos in a weakened state from years before he had real power...wakes up and slaps her around.  Not doing a good job establishing the Furies as big time with this.

6:22 ...Mother of God.  So weak...running away from base Kratos.  This is sad to behold.

6:25 Ares is some manner of hot shot to these fools?

6:33 Cringe worthy.  Might as well start screaming "F*** YOOOOUUUUUU!" as Poison did in DmC.

6:40 So a variant on Hades Nymph.  They don't fly well though.

6:52 He (Lord Ares?) is a fool to watch you what?  Woman, I cannot understand you.  Speak properly if you must speak at all.

6:57 Hard to see, but you can hear the activation of rage and see the rage locked moves.  We have it from the start.  "Now there is no hope." - Kratos *PAIN is going to be a real f***ing PAIN thanks to the no rage condition*

7:01 Ended with s4a?  What?

7:05 He seems to be skipping potential hidden stuff.

7:06 This is NOT how she should be behaving.  This is extremely off-putting.  You don't build them up to be a big deal and make them look like a joke in the same few minutes of the game.  There is no way these stooges are the final fight.  Nemesis?  Nyx? *too much*  Orcos can't be it.  Who?

7:19 Did she think the fall would do us in?  Is she completely clueless?  Now we know how we got here at least.

7:44 That explains the weird grunts (that are just re-skinned Satyr Grunts).

7:54 Looking real tough for all of a full second before getting Tethered and slapped like momma bear.

8:07 Without 'magic', there is no 'explosion' to our WB and such.  We need 'fire' for that.  This said, could we perhaps NOT select magic for the full game to keep clean of elemental influence if we so choose?  Better still, not have rage at all?  If rage is a base ability and it doesn't act like rage...and without elements it has no special perks, should we even restrict it based on the name?  I'm unsure.

8:17 More moves out of the charge.  Nice.  Too bad it didn't do jack.

8:30 Yep.  Just eat those drop kicks all day.

8:44 Kratos smash?

9:13 So more moves have the disarm ability?  Do they also deal zero damage when disarming?  Sort of funny how he just uppercuts him away to take his sword.  Toasty into Yoink.

9:14 WW draw is not an attack now?  Pushed him away in a really awkward slide though.

9:29 Where's the reticule?

9:22 WW Sword is dropping EXP per hit?  I'm convinced that there is a case where WWs only last 30 seconds as things are now.  No way they can be like in the demo and have this ability too.

9:32 My money says this was unintended.  He had grab targetting issues and just rolled with it.  But maybe he just wanted a less efficient approach after using a discard designed for causing stun state.

9:50 Way to PoP **bleep**, devs.

9:52 Kicked his weapon right out of his hands.  Cute.

10:25 Really not liking the dialogue so far.

11:11 Ring-out?  "I love it!" - Gene

11:28 Wasn't the point that oathbreakers don't just die here?  Is she touched in the head?  Why did the sisters leave this idiot with us?  She clearly didn't get the memo about how business is done.  With her performance so far, she's not fit to be our guard.  She is the reason we escaped at all.

11:35 Why are they not exploding like before?

11:44 The hardest enemy yet for this lad is one you can grab kill instantly.  Lovely.

12:16 That explains it.  A mutation on the body of the Hecatoncheir *I hate this pronunciation*.

12:58 This fight would be more interesting if the shifting meant we could be rung out if not careful. They wouldn't dare.  They don't have the stomache for it.

13:06 No EXP orbs for hits with the Sword WW on the boss.

13:22 So now we only have Valor for a counter hit or does it come back for Fire Rage?

13:26 I wonder if all this is blockable.  The demo made it seem like they would do something so silly.

14:04 Reminds me of Hippocampus (Leviathan) minus the ability to actually scale walls *downgrade*.

14:30 Dont tell me that is the only move it has here...

15:46 God, she's annoying.  And that fight was a bad joke.  That's going to be super boring and tedious for challenge runs.  Just air slaps over and over again.

15:56 Borrowed this from GoS.

16:07 Ugh.  I'm just not into this.

16:28 Enslaved set a bad example.

17:00 Reminds me of the view while shimmying along Cronos in GoW1.  Didn't mention it earlier,  but why is she missing an arm again?  She had one in the early showings, I thought.

17:15 It was not me, it was the bird.  I wish it had been me though.  Classic GoW would be me leaping to the chain and getting the ledge as I cause the guy to plummet to his death.

17:53 They finally have Javelin tosses and the first thing they do?  Friendly fire.  Color me unimpressed for their big intro.

18:40 None of them dropped their Javelin?  Really?  At least their melee got updated.

19:38 >giving us EXP from that

Come now.

20:47 Ring-out all day, every day.

20:52 There's the reticule.

21:09 This is just getting ridiculous.  What is this big clown doing?

21:49 Odd death 'disappearances'.

21:56 Kratos upskirt.  10/10.  GOTY.

NOTE: I hope they're quite proud of the joke they've made of this series thus far.

22:08 Going a way other than what is intended looks funny.

23:24 Some new moves for it.

23:51 So stun state for the ride?  With the old system I could abuse this, but this new one?  I'm not so sure.

23:56 His light hits should be sending enemies flying.

24:25 So much for a mini-boss.  What a chump.

25:26 Now we've got this moron from MP in canon.  What **bleep** put this in the SP?

25:41 ...I'm sorely tempted to **bleep** the ellipsis in reaction to this.

25:52 In another parallel with the Hippocampus, we have this happening.

26:02 What killed Deimos is merely a transition for Kratos even at this point.  Telling.  Reminds me of Freddy vs Jason.

26:38 I wish this was on a higher setting.  It isn't nearly aggressive enough to get attacks in before being finished off.

27:45 At least here is some spice, but he sure isn't very aggresive.

28:28 The rule of three again, is it?

29:43 How nice of them to turn off the HUD and QTE prompts.  I wonder if we'll have the option in the retail version.

30:13 And now the Head is infected as she just watches us.

~This seemed like shallow spectacle to me (even for a tutorial boss/area).  It really feels like I'm between GoS and GoWIII in terms of quality.

Message 67 of 75 (4,952 Views)
Treasure Hunter
Registered: 01/15/2006
5836 posts

Re: GoW:SP ideas

Feb 21, 2013

Interesting settings.  Language choices are odd.  I could skip a cutscene.  Lovely.  Should have tried it earlier using select.  Pause menu works.  Main screen is weapon upgrades (Items).  Displays spin.  Cute.  There are seven things other than the BoC.  That allows for four spells and three relics/items.  Rage might not be considered a relic at all then.  Just a mechanic.  Even still, our 'no rage' rule will apply.  Artifcacts are next.  Eyes, Feathers and EXP are noted.  Oh, the main menu had two stones other than SP.  I presume that allows for MP and Extras.  No other screens are shown (things like your stats for instance).  Moves seem to be covered in the 'Item' section in terms of unlocks, but that's it. *checks* Ah, triangle to inspect for moveslist.  I'll continue after work.



Message 68 of 75 (4,907 Views)
Registered: 10/21/2012
859 posts

Re: GoW:SP ideas

Feb 22, 2013

GMG has a lot of free time. A LOT. O.O

Message 69 of 75 (4,867 Views)
Treasure Hunter
Registered: 01/15/2006
5836 posts

Re: GoW:SP ideas

[ Edited ]
Feb 24, 2013

^That's jealousy talking.


Copypasta from testing elsewhere soon.


Interesting settings. Language choices are odd. I could skip a cutscene. Lovely. Should have tried it earlier using select. Pause menu works. Main screen is weapon upgrades (Items). Displays spin. Cute. There are seven things other than the BoC. That allows for four spells and three relics/items. Rage might not be considered a relic at all then. Just a mechanic. Even still, our 'no rage' rule will apply. Artifcacts are next. Eyes, Feathers and EXP are noted. Oh, the main menu had two stones other than SP. I presume that allows for MP and Extras. No other screens are shown (things like your stats for instance). Moves seem to be covered in the 'Item' section in terms of unlocks, but that's it. *checks* Ah, triangle to inspect for moveslist. I'll continue after work.

Hotel: >turn off during cutscenes
Good question. *tests* Nope. Let's testing the pre-menu cutscene. X skips it. PS button pauses cutscenes (rather than letting them play as you attend other matters). Boo!

I don't hold out much.



NOTE: We start with 0EXP, 5 GE and 5FF.

Blades of Chaos (lvl1)

3K EXP for lvl2. Rest are not noted yet. Perhaps after an upgrade.

lvl2 - Unlock Parry, new moves and increased damage.

lvl3 - Unlock 'triangle' combo, upgraded launcher and increased damage.

lvl4 - Unlock evade attacks and increased damage.

lvl5 - Upgrade rage meter and increased damage.

So does this imply we don't parry until lvl2 or we don't get counters until then? New moves are not specified, but likely CoC and the like. Triangle combo? We talking 't,t,t' unlocked (for rage)? Upgraded launcher? A special or is "T" somehow better? Evade attacks? As in more than one? Hopefully not Athena's Wrath. Achilles' Flip is desired. An evading WW Unarmed would mess up rapid rolling though. Rage meter upgraded in what way? More of it? I imagine 1.0 for lvl1 and 3.0 for lvl5 for the damage modifier (as usual).

While inspecting the weapon, you can manipulate it with (R), but not to the degree I recall from GoWIII. No zoom and such.

Olympic Fury - Square string (s,s,s,s) *the ender can be called 'Fury'*
Olympic Fury - Air s,s,s *air Fury, I suppose regarding s3...*
Bravery of Hercules - t1 (so they've named t1 "Bravery"...cute)
Bravery of Hercules - air t1 ('Disscension' is now "air Bravery")
Olympic Ascension - T
Plume of Prometheus - s,s,t (Plume being 't0')
Icarus Lift - Double jump
Hyperion Charge - L3? *so not done by Unarmed WW?*
Hyperion Ram - (sprint) Square input.
Hyperion Slam - (sprint) Triangle input *ground pound rather than a launcher*
Hyperion Uppercut - (sprint) Circle input (WW specific?) *knockback now*
Spartan Escape - (R) *evade*
Orion's Harpoon - ...They forgot about OS and call Tether (in general) OH...

NOTE: Twelve moves remain unknown. No WWs to look at for a move list as is. Let's continue.

Restarting from checkpoint at the start puts me at before the cutscene. No preview or trial of moves yet. Pity. Start is slow. The new menu look doesn't match old GoWs regarding upgrading. You can dodge left/right. I've let her hit me repeatedly. She can't kill me. Doesn't matter which direction you dodge. Slight recovery time between 'evades'. There is a checkpoint at the point where she drops down. Amusing. Square and triangle are the same right now (until the last hit). Attacks cancel evades, but not the other way around (not well anyway). Evade early? Attack and evade again shortly after, I suppose. With this silly segment out of the way...

So the uppercut is now O (to be expected). Air o1 chains not into the weapon switch, but to O even with a non-held input. "s2" and "s3" still lead to the punch (that can still chain into more) though. 's,s,O' leads to a punch into the uppercut (with a whiff). I'll have to test that on foes later. There are no 'lock' cancels in this part of the game (no LC for that). No spell at start, so no cancels with it to test. He won't do air Tether without attacking first (cancel into it). Odd.

NOTE: Nice upskirt shot for kicking at the screen and using select. We lack our specials.

The whole time Magaera was ranting about how she would "not be ruined by a mortal" (like a broken record). Can't test a bunch of stuff from where I am now, so I need to press on. Hitting pots counts for pursue after T. The uppercut cannot do this. Each EXP orb from a vase is worth 5EXP (stable). Not really planning on doing EXP testing right now *if at all* though. Invisible collision where the columns land to block your path. Air o1 gives a bit of vertical height.

Parasites have no unblockables. Their OS and air OS are like with Hades Nymphs. You can stay in the air (slowly falling) and air OS **bleep** to toss them around at each other. Launches and the like produce a state like in GoS *no value*. No parry at lvl1. That's a first. Second (and beyond) playthrough of the area with first fight against Parasites doesn't repeat Magaera dialogue each time. No flying ability (all attacks are off the ground though).

Enemies are not keen on attacking ledge hanging Kratos. No rage meter gain from evade still. L1+o (like Evades) keeps the combo meter paused. The shockwave for it and sprinting t1 (Smash) goes through surfaces quite well. OS kills on Parasites isn't worth nay rage. Our rage meter is halved (lvl5 must unlock the full version that can do L3+R3 or allow for MP orb drops). That should help limit things a bit, but what if people get lvl5 and it was like in the old demo? Seems too OP.

As stated in previous coverage, "s6" is just "Fury" rather than "Valor" in 's,s,s,s,s,s'. If you want Valor, we likely need the parry counter in this entry. You can do Spirit after s5. We don't have lvl3 BoC, so t2 is locked even in rage. The 'punch 1' will go to punch 2 and 3 even if you whiff all of it now (so long as you whiff near enough foes while aiming in their general direction). I'll test rage worth and such later, but early testing shows Unarmed hits not gathering any. You can aim tosses with (L) *entirely manual*.

A silly note and hidden EXP chest. Lame to not be able to skip some of these cutscenes. The checkpoint is BEFORE this crap. Restarting means you have to watch it over and over again. Hope there is another after killing him, because I need to do testing. Wall collisions do damage now. No checkpoint for the whole fight. Not ideal for testing. I'll take my business elsewhere. I know there are greener pastures. Tether pull into wall collision still breaks it. Certain cases don't seem to cause rage to build anymore. More testing later on that front. CG doesn't force WW drops now. o1, O and sprinting o1 do.

Minor Grunts bring the return of the aim assist that the demo technique is needed to regain control from. Tether evade whoring for i-frames and AI breaking still works. These Minor Grunts don't have a charging slash (just a double and a single). So they're even less of a threat than in the demo. The stun of o1 is downgraded (light stun). Duping glitch for WWs still works. Shame that the holes in the walls from foes breaking in don't have chests hidden.

I had Magaera insult her creation as it was being born in one restart of the cutscene. Because air OS moves off away from the ground while swinging them and it takes a different amount of HP, you can just infinitely repeat air OS on all foes (never touching the ground). Now that's progress. Let's move on to better places to do testing though.

Using air o1, I got atop the object without using Tether, but it didn't let me go beyond that...other than going OoB and dying. Neat visuals.

Certain hits of Sword WW drop EXP orbs. Cute. Seems to have an evading O move that is essentially the counter from the demo. Checkpoint after pulling the platform down. Another stupid note. I was able to break the camera at the first HP chest area by leaping away from the ladder (top) and going around the corner with diving moves. It fixes itself in certain places. Just hold down on the ladder to slide down. Another checkpoint against three Infected Humans. Ring-out on them, but not for us. Better than invisible walls for everyone.

Her creation of the infect Honky Tonk arm boss is a cutscene we can skip. Checkpoint at Honky Tonk fight start. I'll probably use the previous checkpoint for rage, damage and other tests (mostly). We'll see. Honky Tonk's ranged attack is unblockable. No EXP for WW chops on it. His back left/right stab is the same in that regard. The AoE isn't as big as it looks, but it can be deceptive. His 'drag' for center stabs doesn't hurt us. His attack seems to stuff evade i-frames, so you have to clear it. Death screen says some foes can counter tether. He likes to taunt after most attacks. He gets stuck after missing stabs. Gold orbs are for rage. Sword Toss won't hit him. When close, he can stab the leftside, sweep the right and sweep across to the right (all blockable). Lots of HP orbs for getting it dizzy. Forces the slow-mo camera each time that happens. First QTE is 's,s,s'.

Again drops HP orbs at dizzy state. Has stab/sweep for either side. Stabs coves and gets stuck (good opening). His tells are huge, so lead on the cove stab, leap out (or i-frame evade through) and whoop him. Seems like EXP drain works on this phase. I can abuse this to farm XP, but it will take a LONG time to get lvl5. Might be worth it. No EXP or hit count during dizzy state (that would make this way too easy). He has a center stab again. You can i-frame evade through his attacks. No blockables this time. Seems like each hit of the Sword is 1EXP. This would take a long, long time. Too long even for me. QTE is 't,x' L1+R1. Sword toss still didn't work.

Stupid sliding section. No checkpoint for it. Not until after it says 'the Sewers'. Note talks about some noise that would imply Kratos isn't even part human (which can't be right). Once on a wall, you cannot get down until you climb off of 'wall mode' and then you can leap back down. Blocking doesn't drop you out of it like the old demo (for the lowest point). They refuse to let me kill myself. Very limited control in navigation.

Found the Prisoner's Oath stone. Infinite Rage. Seems like some tosses in some spots will glitch kill foes. Checkpoint at Javelin users. Sweet spot on stairwell by gate. They have more Satyr-like attack strings now. You can recollect the stone, but the game recall you got it even upon restart. Ring-outs are not being prevented much at all (good). Javelin is NOT unlimited use anymore. The air freefall trick is gone. Air Discard into spam is gone. You get 10 spear tosses. It may or may not remember how many you use per checkpoint. I'll test that later. Sword for now.

Next section forces slow walk. Bleh.

Foes don't reliably drop their weapons. Stun system is pretty different. Expect testing on that later. Fight a bit. Upskirt. Silly puzzle. Cyclops Berserker. Checkpoint. Lots of new attacks. Stomp is blockable. Rest are not. Getting behind him and slightly outside stomp AoE range works fine. Luring the charge and abusing the opening hasn't changed (GoWIII was good for this). Ah, what a useful lad. EXP farming with Sword WW works on him and he loops to dizzy state quickly without dying. Lots of EXP and not as slow as the other method. Still slow though. Sword o3 no longer has strong hit stun.

lvl2 BoC

Spartan's Revenge - L1+x (parry as a special *MP influence*)

Cyclone of Fury - S

CoF (air) - S

CoF is just CoC, but on a new input. Amusing. The air version is Apollo's Offensive. Hit properties on both are weak even for the final hits. Evading O for Sword has a strong stun. Parry doesn't work on ANYTHING he does. It's the MP parry now (heresy). Doesn't work in the air. Sword Toss does lots of stun damage. Finally. A convenient glitch from the old demo. It cannot get up out of dizzy state and won't die, so I can keep spamming the O flurry for EXP. This will take a long time, but I can get to lvl5 like this. I'll probably have to delay the rest of testing to do this though. I won't likely do it again to test damage and the like, because this is a pain in the **bleep**. Might as well watch other stuff while I mash circle.

Cyclops Berserker riding hasn't changed aside from it never shaking you off. Annoying we can't call it off (or Tether).

lvl3 BoC

Spirit of Hercules - t,t,t *rage* (t2 unlocked and t3 as Spirit)
Valor of Hercules - t,t,s *rage* (it does nothing as s6 is missing in the demo)
Olympic Ascension - T *it literally does more damage beyond the modifier*
Falling Helios - air T *basically as it was in GoW1*

NOTE: I believe it as 5K for lvl3. Something like 13K to get to lvl4. Don't know how lvl5 will require. 15K? 20K? God, I hope not. This process is insanely slow. I'll probably not have lvl4 BoC before going to sleep.

Isn't it just? Gets us nice and bloody if you leave it alone though.

Maybe. We need a proper HJ or IJ to do anything with that though. Though we could maybe air o1 (Unarmed) to get slight vertical before a forward dive to clear a ledge (if only just barely unable to clear *and the ledge mechanic isn't working*). Conditional.

>no return
Not at lvl1. lvl2 has the MP parry. No air version (obviously). The stupid stance and everything. It's hideous. Haven't tried it on regular foes yet. Been grinding for MAX BoC. It says it can 'return' projectiles, but I sense it won't be able to return petrification. The parry counter might only be making an opening 'stun'. I'd have to see it in action first. lvl2 also had CoC as a ground light held input (only) and the air version of that input was for Apollo's Offensive (GoW1 moves returning). One can only hope we get LotF back, but the fire spell might be playing at that role. It's weird to be at lvl3 and not have a single L1+face button special for the Blades. L1+x is the parry and that doesn't count to me. Timed blocks are out. lvl4 doesn't speak of getting new ones. lvl5 only notes rage. Surely they aren't skipping those inputs. That would be bizarre.

>only exploit fixed
There were more. Some fixed, some not and some added.

>but not all
Correct. Just the one's not done in the game's engine without touch-ups. Cutscene cutscenes, if you will. Just press select if it feels like a cutscene and check your options.

>dah God Killah
Nephilim May Fly.

>outside PAIN+
Outside challenge runs. Still can't believe Valor wasn't there as 's6' even for the sequence it is named for. Hell, even 's4a' (Fury) wasn't there. The square input after t2 did NOTHING. That can't be right.

>throwback to GoW1
Could be. What else would one call the inclusion of Apollo's Offensive and Falling Helios? Maybe they'll wise up and give us GoWIII ground TR that can be charged for 'Rising Helios'. Fire spell already resembles LotF. It's the new moves that I don't like that much. Because of the sprint, certain attacks that were 'Unarmed' before, are now default (BoC)...but they don't count as such (rage build-up) I say we treat them as WW territory for PAIN/PAIN+. They're not that great anyway.

lvl4 BoC

Athena's Wrath - (R),S
Rising Helios - (R),T
Apollo's Ascension - (R),X

All this and no talk of Achilles' Flip? Are they f***ing with me? Let's what we've got. AW is just "Fury" (s4a)... Rising Helios is what it says, but without the plume ender. Apollo's Ascension is just that. These moves just aren't giving rage meter or canceling... 25K for lvl5. Are you f***ing kidding me? Jesus Christ. This is going to take me all night (after work).

I've had enough. I'm using a slower, automatic method. I can't be around the whole time anyway, so this can get things done while I'm gone. Looks like Sword (R),O is going to save the day. It's slower, but should get the job done by the time I get home and without myself having to mash for 5+ hours. If I had a turbo controller, I'd fix X and O down so it kept mashing them together for the orb milking process.

I'll post 'cancel' testing results soon enough. I'll likely gloss over higher level testing for moves of lvl3 or higher (maybe skip it altogether). I just don't want to mess with it when I don't know what has changed between demos. Makes me wish I had been patient and done this in a different run (after other tests were finished), but the Cyclops taking this glitched dizzy state (unkillable) isn't something I can reproduce at will, so it's now or never, I feel. Themed runs, challenge runs, damage testing, rage testing, stun testing, etc. will follow before long. Some tactical coverage, though it isn't exactly necessary.

Excruciatingly slow orb drain from GoW1 returns. Lovely. I was only 1K off before I had to leave. I've come back to 52K+. Let's see here.

lvl5 BoC

Athena's Blessing - Rage Upgrade
Athena's Revenge - N/A *what?*

Says MP orbs release while rage is active for the former. The latter is increased 'stun amount' done to enemies. And here Hotel was asking what Athena had done for us (lately). Dohohoho. What a saint. So the rage meter is now beyond the limits as in the old demo, but in this CANNOT fill it, so I cannot use the former gift of MP drops nor test rage dump. There were no L1+face button specials in the classic sense. Very suspicious, indeed. Time to murder with the Cyclops, finish it off and reach a checkpoint. I need to test at least the parry (and stuns) in combat.

NOTE: Feels like they gave us infinite 'riding' for this bit just for the demo. As soon as all foes die, he automatically gets finished off.

You don't have to climb up to reach the grapple point. You can double jump, attack and cancel into Tether. Stupid MP champion part. Anyway, too tired to go on with testing. More tomorrow.

I've no need of it.

>missing specials
Curious stuff.

>not the same
True. No air CoC this time. Not a huge fan of the move, but it is a staple. Plenty of other multi-hit moves to waste time on though. Apollo's Offensive without the bounce or HJ isn't worthwhile though...and Falling Helios doesn't compare to BoE's lvl2 air TR. Just as lvl2 TR on the ground was a better Rising Helios. Hell, BoE lvl2 CoC for ground mashing with extra hits was a good move that has been lost for no good reason.


So then, another Honky Tonk arm encounter. Smashes us through walls and L1+R1 mashing to begin fight.

Far rightside options. I'll note attacks from our perspective (not his).

Left arm smashes into wall, then right arm swats ground and drags to the left. The game calls Unarmed "Spartan Kick" and notes that it can disarm certain foes (just not super reliably). Seems you can evade through them, but the active attack frames last long enough to hit you coming out of them if you get stuck along the body. Better to get around over over the attack. Not blockable. He will keep attacking even if you leave the area and the withdraw of the left hand attack on the wall will count as an attack too.

His wall splat grab (L1+R1) can be reversed for HP orbs. You can evade through. His fall into dizzy state is an attack (just like Colossus). It's blockable. Seems to miss when too near his body (the grab that is). We can buffer air T and air S through each other (but not air S from the animation of air S *same for air T*). I don't think reversing it hurts him though (beyond a cosmetic thing). Leaves him wide open if he whiffs it. Not reversing it just keeps doing damage until you do (doesn't take much to reverse it and I don't think you get hurt for being caught, so it's harmless). You can be whiff hit by the grab, but it isn't huge damage (on Normal). Might be a Skorpius case (but gives us HP back and is quick to reverse). Pretty sure that is what you can block. Being able to evade through it is nice too.

NOTE: Ascension looks more like the T of CoH at this point. Might have changed with lvl3. Also, if it wasn't obvious, watch for the part that glows to know what attacks he'll use.

He has a 'half-area' sweep that cannot be blocked (tends to do it after the hand smash string). You can evade through, outrange or leap over. Phase ends drop HP as usual. He can be made to follow you around rather than attack if you quick roll around. Likes to taunt still.

We don't get EXP orbs from wailing on him with the Sword (probably no Sword Toss hit again *foes that don't suffer stuns likely exercise immunity*). His finger collisions can block your quick roll path. Wall stab, to ground stab to slide. The first two can be evades through. The third too probably, but the active attack frames are long (and it drags you like some of his other moves *rather than letting you pass through*). If you keep away after the first stab, he won't do the rest. If you allow the second, he will do the slide. He can hit close to his body with the 'slide' despite appearance. Entirely blockable attack string.

He always prefers falling on the right first (then the left). Left is the same as right in terms of combat. Fighting along the green lines (divides his attack areas up) is suggestible. If you keep switching over the line, he can only use the sweep to attack.

In the center he likes to pin you in (you can get outside this *he will use the arm nearest you to sweep your way*) No matter what, whatever way he sweeps, he will move there (even if you aren't there). He tends to 'pin' in when you're in the circle (rather than outside it but still centered *sweeps more that way*). Damage can break the pin even if not enough to dizzy him. He likes to taunt after that. The pin isn't an attack, but just a set-up. Inside it, blockable right or left side stabs. Back-center is immune to this attack. You have about three stabs before he'll break out for a sweep (air block to defend *too fast to clear*). The stupid parry works on his ground stabs. HA! Ah, you CAN escape the pin without sufficient damage. Just keep running around the hands to work around collision. Maybe jump while doing so to wiggle around then get clear of the sweep. Alright, I tested it. He loses the invisible collision during his stabs, so you can get out of the pin during them. Note this well. Just remember he quickly decides to sweep when you escape.

QTE is "O" mashing. No damage suffered for failure. Quicker than waiting for him to wake up.

Parasite back-up for i-frames and tossing at him. Very finite. Rightside attack is a splat and stab (entirely blockable). So his help and his attack...all blockable. He still has the half arena sweep. His leftside is the same as phase 1 (so less wise to do battle on). His grab can't reach you in the leftcorner nearest the camera (foreground). Neat. Again, large opening. His...bug spray at the start targets where you go to the extreme right (foreground) and they fall to their death. No EXP from what I can see. Silly. If you allow them to spawn, they won't be suffering friendly fire from him (super lame) nor respawns *farming*. He is hard to hit with them unless really exposed. Seems harder to get around the pin collision collapse in this phase (had to roll through). Falls on the left no matter what (as expected).

Phase three gives him the Phase 2 rightside attacks for he left. So now he only has blockables other than the 'sweep'. No center attacks. How sad. Extreme rightside negates spawn of his back-up as before. He will now start retreating to make more spawns after awhile. Doesn't matter with the trick noted. This phase is a joke. Best to put him out of his misery. Before the QTE, I let him spawn more help to see what would happen if I went to grab him (targeting issues, but I got through it). First RBP sequence (random). *3x* Simples. Demo ends.

---END Run 1---

Alright, now to try to work with this new dummy account and set-up shop for distribution (late as I am). I suppose I should try to get the Javelin and see if it remembers number of uses with checkpoints. Rage, stun, cancel, damage *collision too*, focus runs, challenge runs *NGR+, NBR+, NUR+, Blades Only, WW *one* only, NCR, PAIN+, etc.*. I'll do 'fun' for now. I don't feel like testing damage, rage or stun yet (though that would help).

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