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Treasure Hunter
Registered: 01/15/2006
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Re: GoW:SP ideas

[ Edited ]
Feb 24, 2013

CANCEL TESTING (for lack of Magic and Lock *remember this*):

s1 - Block, Tether, Jump and Evade cancels.

s2 - Block, Tether, Jump and Evade cancels.

s3 - Block, Tether, Jump and Evade cancels.

s4a - Block, Tether *new*, Jump and Evade cancels.

s4b *rage* - Block, Jump and Evade cancels.

s5 *rage* - Block, Jump and Evade cancels.

s6 *rage* - Refer to "s4a".

t1 - Block, Tether, Jump and Evade cancels. *rage bounce*

t2 *rage; bounce* - Need lvl3 (?)

t3 *rage; bounce* - Block, Tether, Jump and Evade cancels.

t0 - Block and Evade cancels. *brief dedicated animations right before impact*

T - Jump cancels. *short dedicated animation during start-up of slow version*

L3 - Tether and Jump cancels.

(sprint) s1 - Evade cancel. *can be spammed repeatedly*

(sprint) t1 - ...

(sprint) o1 - ...

(Unarmed) o1 - Block and Tether cancels. *no longer evade cancels*

(Unarmed) o1a *punch 1; switch* - Block, Tether and Evade cancels.

(Unarmed) o2 *punch 2* - Block, Tether and Evade cancels.

(Unarmed) o3 *punch 3; stun* - Block, Tether and Evade cancels.

(Unarmed) O - ...

(Sword) o1 - Block, Tether, Jump and Evade cancels.

(Sword) o2 - Block, Tether, Jump and Evade cancels.

(Sword) o3 *stun* - Block, Tether, Jump and Evade cancels.

(Sword) o4 *stun/knockback* - Block, Tether, Jump and Evade cancels.

(Sword) O - Block, Tether, Jump and Evade cancels.

(Sword) o1a *switch; two hits that both bounce* - ...

(Sword) Evade O - Block cancel. *knockback*

(Javelin) o1 - Block and Evade cancels.

(Javelin) O *trampling, knocback* - ...

Tether - ...

air s1 - Block Tether cancels.

air s2 - Block and Tether cancels.

air s3 - Block and Tether cancels.

air t1 - Block and Tether cancels.

(Unarmed) air o1 - ...

(Sword) air o1 - Block and Tether cancels

(Sword) air O - ...

(Javelin) air o1 - ...

(Javelin) air O - ...

CoC (S) - ... *air S, air T and all the evades are the same*

L1+x (Parry) - ...

(Unarmed) L1+o - Evade and Tether cancels.

(Sword) L1+o - ...

(Javelin) L1+o - ...

(Unarmed) air L1+o - ...

(Sword) air L1+o - ...

(Javelin) air L1+o - ...

(counter) Spartan Revenge - ... *there goes variety for a strict, focused and bad counter*

NOTE: I blame MP for all this (as usual). It is, after all, the MP parry he uses now, yes?

 

---

 

Besides the enemy HP, damage, etc. testing ahead (along with rage and stun), I'll be note some attacks. Parasites have two blockables. Infected Humans that are unarmed don't ever seem to grab, so just the dropkick. Sword users lost their charge and gain a simple slash. Sad for them. Javelin guys got a flipping attack like a proper Satyr and a Javelin toss (still have the push). Already covered the boss encounters. Cyclops had the classic chase into kick to punch. Gained a bunch of unblockable swings and a blockable stomp (like Juggernaut).

Second run (and beyond) testing continues with challenge runs and the like to make things interesting for me. First, to keep it simple, NUR+ (basically vanilla). Next NGR+ NUR+. Followed by NBR+ NUR+. Unarmed Only. Then Sword. Then Javelin testing (as much as one can). PAIN+.

---Round 2---

Grab whoring on Parasites. Tether to WB to OH to WB (repeat) on Infect Humans. This is laughably easy (as one should expect). Ring-out and grab **bleep**. Evade through the center attack, 's,s,s,s' block cancel and repeat for rage so I can use 's,s,s,s,s,t' over and over for the grab. Get in cove, wait for opening sweep (always does this), leap out as he makes for the stab, slap his hands silly until dizzy. Grab.

Ignore the controls while sliding (begrudgingly guide to avoid whatever is in the way). Climb. Sidle. Ring-out (all dem grabs). The trick with (R) and (L) to ignore targeting during tosses around multiple foes works well here. Chain yank Slow walk. Loads of ring-outs and grab kills. It annoys me that we cannot be rung-out here for playing foolishly. Or anywhere so far. It's idiot proof and I don't like it. Grapple away. Pull lever.

Tug. Square **bleep** and evade cancel away from attacks (baiting kick/punch from range works fine). With rage, plume **bleep** (good for stuns like this) or sword toss (with a few more hits) to make dizzy. Ride. Crush everyone. Tug. Grapple. Again. Failed the mini-game for the wall crush on purpose to see what would happen. It just hangs us there and waits for us to press x to try again. Perhaps a mechanic they use elsewhere.

Get to the front center and spam 's,s,s,s' with block cancel while he sets up for pin (and stab). Get 'rage' quick enough for 's,s,s,s,s,t' to repel him and **bleep** it for dizzy state. On a higher setting, I might have to block or evade through his attacks. Not here though. If it came to it, I would squeeze around the 'pin' as noted in earlier coverage. Grab for Phase 2. Retain my rage by roll whoring (as one would to keep hit count) at the extreme right (letting his Parasites ring-out), evade to the center to bait 'pin' for more of the same (he tries to sweep, I clear away then return to center as planned), he gets dizzy from more Spirit, grab him for Phase 3. One can land extra hits while he is dizzy to have 'rage' coming out of the mini-game. Extreme right roll whoring to keep rage and make his help die off before they can fight, close distance when he does, more whoring, block as needed, he gets dizzy, grab finish. 2easy.

 

NGR+ NUR+

My plume whoring brings all the Parasites to the yard.  I was using 's,s,s,s' with block cancels to get rage before destroying with 's,s,s,s,s,t' before I realized they infinitely respawn until you do a Tether (so I pulled one into a wall before killing it).  I'm going to contend that picking up a WW is a 'grab', so I won't be using the Sword Toss or any WWs beyond the punches.  Plume and move for Parasite group.  Honky Tonk as before (entirely).  Plume **bleep** the Infected Humans for rage and then Spirit **bleep**.  Plume and evade as necessary (watch for super armor from Grunts).  Cyclops Berserker as before.  Honky Tonky encounter 2 exactly as before.

NBR+ NUR+

Pretty much as before.  I don't really have much need for blocking yet.  The only notable being the lack of block canceling of 's,s,s,s', instead evade cancels.

Unarmed (WW) Only

This doesn't technically rule out grabs or blocks, but I don't know how I feel about repeat tactics for the most part, so, this time, I'll disallow grabs (but allow blocking) *grab reversals are fine*.  Though Sprint light and physical are both part of the BoC, they act like WW unarmed hits (no rage build-up and physical), so I'll allow them.  Technically punches are allowed, but I have to go through possible DQs to get to them...but they're so stylish, I just might do it for fun.  **bleep** them for changing air o1 from a set-up for them, to the stupid dedicated launcher (without a pursue).

A cheap way for the first fight is to ground pound (two versions) through the wall until all parasites die.  But really, the ground special is great for hurting the group and lets you evade cancel (lovely).  For lack of quick access to punches, lots of pound and evade cancel with foes grouped against a wall for stun locking.  Sword chaps could fight through, so I thought it better to disarm them before doing the same.  DEM UPPERCUTS (for ring-out).  More smash and evade for Parasites.

Honky Tonk got the same treatment as usual, but with 'air o1' to O over and over.  Baiting the center grab was important for keeping control (he gets a bit too excited with stabs otherwise).  Just a grind, really.  The next phase was nothing special.  Just couldn't attack the arm in the cove from the 'center'.  Could leap over the stab sometimes, but it wasn't consistent.

Uppercuts for ring-outs.  More uppercuts and some slam/evade antics.  Run around him, hop if need be, but mostly a lot of air t1 to O to chip away for dizzy state.  Lots more of this 'stomp to uppercut' approach, but with the old tactic of baiting 'pin and stabs'.  This time though, I opted to land the hit string while baiting a stab, then moving to the other side to keep landing hits.  I found that I could phase through his hands with the dive (typical of Hermes Stomp) and then wait out the sweep before beating on his fingers while waiting to repeat the process.  Phase 2.  Same.  Phase 3.  Bait attack, get on other side, usual stomp to uppercut approach and repeat.  Simples.

I'll do Sword, Javelin (as much as you can, anyway) and PAIN+ tomorrow.  I'm tired now.  Time to watch some videos.  I'll make rounds later as well.

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Treasure Hunter
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Re: GoW:SP ideas

Feb 24, 2013

gent: >keep it going
Of course.

---

Sword Only

Seems the evades being attack canceled can help speed up the Magaera slapping bit a second or so.  Speed tactics.  At any rate, skip the trash fights, wish the Infected Human bit was a skippable cutscene, grab murder until I can acquire a Sword to start the run.  Flurries are nice, but not too safe without evade cancels.  Evade attacks are nice for it.  Simple hit strings work good.  Can't set-up the air normals.  Can't use Sword Toss without more Swords around before having to fight again, but need non-Sword hits to disarm, so only pickups would be allowed.  We don't technically block with the Sword, but it seems fine.

Boring circle mashing is easily the safest approach.  Honky Tonk as before, but with air normal whoring.  Same for the second stage.  What was the point of 'the Sewers' getting a name, if it is just a climbing section (one short case)?  Why not expand it to be more interesting?  Ring-outs via o4 or (R),O on Javelin users.  More for the Honky Tonk tumbling building chunk bit.

Evade attacks stun the Cyclops, but not through all of his attacks.  Better to circle mash while going around him or even air normal **bleep**.  Sword Toss would speed it up, but whatever.  Same Honky Tonk handling as before, but with ground normal whoring and some air normals (for when he taunts mostly *spice things up*).  Force his spawns to instant death.  Nothing new to report really.

Javelin testing

The talk of 'in media res' bothers me as the opening fight is a joke (small concern) and we have lvl1 crap (larger concern).  All this and we're killing 'Furies' who are being built up (like the Fates) as beyond the Olympians and Titans.  Yet the events of future games still happen (we struggle and the deities don't seem phased by our feats).  Ridiculous.

I guess I'll try to use Javelin O for ring-outs, then test having 9 or less (rather than 10) Javelins after a checkpoint (hoping it forgets and gives you 10).  Nevermind about O.  It couldn't ring them out.  Worthless.  Spam spears, toss with one left, keep one with 9 at the end.  Yep.  It remember how much you had left.  I'll save it for Honky Tonk just to see if it does jack to him or the Cyclops.  Managed to get the supposedly fixed grab kill while not holding a foe glitch with an Infected Human falling over the edge with red halo while I did the Tether.  Held input has strong stun, but won't fight through the Berserker's attacks.  Not great for stunning even with the discard.  Not looking good.  Super nerfed.  It does absolutely NOTHING.  Run aborted.  It can't hit Honky Tonk (as I feared).

PAIN+

Boy, oh boy.  I can't wait to have to stop laying down a beating to let the 'rage' meter cool down.  I don't think it even does anything for vanilla grabs, but, on principle, I'll pretend it does and stop short of it (block **bleep** to let it fade away because evades maintain meter).  Most of this will be a repeat though.

I can grab with impunity on Parasites.  Air OS doesn't build rage, so infinite use of that on Minor Grunts when I can't just toss for ring-out (without building too much meter).  Hmmm, toss nor WB build meter any more either.  OH does though.  Grab kill doesn't either.  Seems most of my grab options won't cause meter to build.  Grab whoring run?  Grab whoring run.

Honky Tonk gets 2x 's,s,s,s' before I lay off, bait more center stabs (cooling off) and repeat.  Lay off the attack when the gold orbs fill me up.  Nothing special.  Just slow.  Ah, but plume whoring (just landing it rather than the square hits) is faster for damage (because t0 can hit twice in this entry and heavy hits don't tend to be worth much in rage).  Good, good.  Ring-outs galore.  Repeated t0 (and just that) while keeping medium range on the Cyclops Berserker.  Did't build meter fast and let me get him to dizzy state fast enough.  Honky Tonk handling like usual, but with t0 to chip him. 2easy.

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Treasure Hunter
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Re: GoW:SP ideas

Feb 26, 2013
I'll start by seeing how this attire differs from General Kratos now that I have a nice high quality picture of the model used in GoWII (aside from cutscene *CGI* references). He's missing part of the bandaging on the backs of his hands (the old models had this even in GoW1). His shin guards are different and he is missing a wrap below the knee on his right leg. Sandals don't seem right either. His sash is a bit off, but his skirt is clearly wrong (armor remnants from the Fallen God attire *port of GoWIII*). Missing right arm bandages as well. Now let's check with cutscenes from the time of killing his family. *checks* Yep. All they had to do was reference their own material and yet here we are. All this besides the physique change.

NOTE: Their silly 'ashes' ad glosses over something. Captain Kratos didn't transition to Ghost of Sparta through the curse. He was the Fist of Ares...General Kratos when he lost the armor and began sacking temples, razing villages, murdering 'innocents' (men, women, children, elderly, etc.) and all that jazz. He led his men in the name of his master, Lord Ares. And he did it proudly. They pretend like the atrocities of that time never happened (while forgetting his time as a Spartan Captain weren't exactly all roses either).

Upon review, his wife's depiction has changed quite a bit and I don't much care for that. Old CGI cutscenes, old models and the concept art make clear how she was meant to look, but they've altered it beyond 'dressing' to suit their new actress (VA), I'd surmise. They would have been better off staying consistent on two fronts with a face like that. Going back to Kratos, the hand wrapping business can be overlooked as in cutscenes that was not part of the look (it could go either way). The Blades themselves seem fine though. The 'wraps' under the chains look more like armor than bandages, which would negate the true nature of his bondage to Ares (seared to the flesh). This is more like his gift from Athena (lacking the same brutality).

Anyway, on to testing. Rage first. Then stuns. Followed by damage (the longest part). I don't intend (for now) to do lvl2+ work for stuns or damage. I already know that the majority of gained abilities do not grant rage and there is no unlock courtesy of Athena even at MAX for a chance of rage drops or slight increases to 'rage worth' per hit or anything like that. About the only test I would need to do is the parry/counter, which I expect the former to gain no rage and probably not the latter either. This leaving just light attacks with large gains, heavy with weak gains and perhaps just OH among grabs giving rage (but maybe not dealing damage). The expected modifiers are 1.0, 1.5, 2.0, 2.5 and 3.0 while "T" shall need retesting at lvl3 (because of a damage boost unique to it). I'd rather not test multi-hit attacks and as things are now, I might just get my wish. Mostly. For now.

I suppose I should test again to confirm that some moves (like t0) get their proper hit properties back when in 'rage' while I'm at it. As before, I'll consider this halved meter '50' units (with the lvl5 version at 100) just to make more sense of results. It takes about 6 OH to get rage. More than 5 suggests it is less than 10 units, but still more than 5 units (would take 10). I'll need ot test other abilities to help figure out more exactly what the value is. As with regular evades, Tether evades will pause the rage meter (so it not only offers absolute protection and turns off AI, but will effortlessly keep the meter where it was). Seems like WW hits don't build meter, but they don't drop it either. Obviously grabs pause the meter too. Just like the hit counter. The block of foes doesn't stop rage meter building, though it seems to (as one might expect) stop damage. Convenient.

Took 27 s1 hits to get rage when they block. 13 hits when they don't. So they entirely block damage, but partial block rage build-up as such? That could make testing somewhat annoying. I imagine it is 4 units per hit if unblocked. I assume 2 units per hit when it is blocked. Seems like even missed WW attacks pause the meter. Sadly, not if you block or jump cancel. The rarity of their block is annoying me. I think the proper total for the s1 hits in rage would have been 25 if I had not block canceled too early on some as it seems like 'rage' is given AFTER damage is dealt, so you cancel early and not get it. They cannot block the Sword Toss. I'll go with this then. I cannot test 'rage' moves for 'rage' worth without the other half the meter which is only there for lvl5 and doesn't work in the demo. So, "N/A". Moves like Ascension trump super armor of the likes of the Grunt attacks.

Same rules seem to apply about landing a single hit on multiple foes or a multi-hit single input (so long as one lands, you get the rage units, but no extra for more hits on more targets). Hmmm, seems like air t1 might not play by that rule. t0 on a dizzy (red or gold) target didn't build meter (for Grunt). Odd. Oh, it's just low rage build. Forget that. It can, however, hit multiple targets for rage build on each. It's obviously better for damage and stun though. Managed to glitch a Grunt into trudging in 'Tether' state into walls until I killed him. Tether slaps don't get the same perk as t0. Pity. Seems like s4a doesn't either.

s1 - 4 *worth one less unit*

s2 - 4

s3 - 4

s4a - 10 *worth two more*

s4b *rage* - N/A

s5 *rage* - N/A

s6 *rage* - N/A *s4a now*

t1 - 5 *lost rage bounce*

t2 *rage bounce?; need lvl3 to test* - N/A

t3 *rage bounce* - N/A

t0 *rage bounce* - 2 *?*

T - 6 *worth two less*

air s1 - 4

air s2 - 4

air s3 - 4

air t1 *rage bounce* - 2.5/2.5

L3 - ...

(sprint) s1 - 0

(sprint) t1 - 0

(sprint) o1 - 0

(Unarmed) o1 - 0

(Unarmed) o1a - 0

(Unarmed) o2 - 0

(Unarmed) o3 - 0

(Unarmed) O - 0

(Sword) o1 - 0

(Sword) o2 - 0

(Sword) o3 - 0

(Sword) o4 *stun/knockback* - 0

(Sword) O - 0

(Sword) o1a - 0

(Sword) Evade O *knockback* - 0

(Javelin) o1 - 0

(Javelin) O *trampling, strong stun* - 0

Tether - ...

(Unarmed) air o1 - 0

(Sword) air o1 - 0

(Sword) air O - 0

(Javelin) air o1 - 0

(Javelin) air O - 0

L1+x (Parry) - Need lvl2 to test *maybe later*

(counter) Spartan Revenge - *testing later maybe*

(Unarmed) L1+o - 0

(Sword) L1+o - 0

(Javelin) L1+o - 0

(Unarmed) air L1+o - 0

(Sword) air L1+o - 0

(Javelin) air L1+o - 0

(Tether) CG - 0

(Tether) s1 - 5

(Tether) s2 - 5

(Tether) WB - 0

(Tether) Toss - 0

(Tether) OH 'Slam' - 10

(Tether) air OS 'STRP' - 0

(Tether) Battering Ram - 0 *none for wall smashes either*

(Tether) Parasite OS - 0

(Tether) Torso rip/head rip - 0

(Tether) Cyclops Berserker QTE - 0

(Tether) Honky Tonk QTE 1 - 25

(Tether) Honky Tonk QTE 2 - 0 *even if there was any, we lose it by the time sliding is done*

(Tether) Honky Tonk QTE 3 - 0

(Tether) Honky Tonk QTE 4 - 0

(Tether) Honky Tonk QTE 5 - 0 *as with case 2, but because the demo ends*

(Reversal) Honky Tonk grab - 4

---

That's all I have time for now that I've been called in for a long shift. Not sure I'll be able to do stun testing until Thursday (at earliest). Latest being Sunday. Damage after that. Again, not so much interested in testing for damage dealt to us right now.
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Re: GoW:SP ideas

[ Edited ]
Feb 26, 2013

I'll link the videos later with an edit.

Let's see here:

0:09 Do they seriously have a globe in his house? Why would he have that even if they knew the world was round? It isn't even round in GoW's universe as there is an 'edge' and it is a flat disc being held up by Atlas.

0:13 So we going to get the newly made up Omega ring of his wife as a possession now?

0:44 Sure is a lot of rehashing in this trailer so far.

0:53 I guess they did get the sash wrong. It wasn't supposed to have any pattern on it yet.

0:58 Orcos plays a dangerous game with what seems like it would be Emphousa.

1:00 Trip to Delphi.

1:07 Can't quite tell if the jaw got changed.

1:08 The Python 'machine'.

1:10 I don't recall Spartans only having one general (just as they had two kings). GoW's version differs. Imagine that.

1:14 Probably that huge Centaur statue.

1:18 Not sure where this is, but it has 'classic Atlas' statue.

1:24 Initial encounter where Magaera attacks at Sparta (along with the others, I'm sure).

1:25 Castor (and Pollux), I presume.

1:27 Still more of the shaming of Magaera (end of our chase, I imagine).

1:29 Charbydis fought on land, I see. We seem to have 'lightning blades' by this point.

1:33 Life Cycle.

1:46 Alecto or Tisiphone. One or the other. Effective at binding, I see.

Other video now:

0:25 I hope that 'liontauress' with a bow isn't their version of Artemis. They talked about making her like this early on. At any rate, she lacks her famous (in GoW) Blade.

0:34 Old Cyclops Berserker and Aphrodite. Kratos using t1 with a club on his back just before that.

0:36 Emphousa.

1:44 Artemis concept art (among others *Ares at the bottom*), I presume.

1:47 I do hope this wasn't an early intent to make Charbydis look like a gorgon or make Stheno a sea monster. It looks like two fighters are going at it (maybe one was meant to be Artemis).

1:48 Early Furies art, I take it.

2:21 Probably Furies (and others *including Kratos*) again. You can see the flayed/skinless Centaur concept art of GoW1 in the background.

3:08 Neat looking move in the background (more than likely dropped). Not sure what he's talking about regarding making WWs work with the Blades, as they each only have on move that strings with the Blades and only in one way (sometimes borrowed from a pre-existing move), so what's so hard about it?

3:18 Not a 'spear' (Javelin), not always 'goats' (Satyrs) *Infected Humans are re-skins* and they don't drop jack on death.

3:35 Likely o1 for Club. Same as MP.

3:44 Definitely got a nerf since that build.

3:45 It doesn't have an ender either. Removed long ago (before the E3 build). There are no WW upgrades, for those who haven't kept up.

4:10 So just 'grunts', eh? I suppose I won't need to worry about testing Honky Tonk, Parasites, etc. I do know that more beyond the Satyr Grunt/Infect Human have it though.

4:31 Giving Emphousa a hard time.

4:45 Cutesy.

5:05 Ruining them, rather. Thanks MP.

5:20 >new
GoS.

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Re: GoW:SP ideas

Mar 2, 2013

Parasites seem to have 10HP. Infected Humans at 35HP. I'll get to Honky Tonk and Cyclops Berserker later.

I won't be able to be exact with stuns in terms of units as I can't make a guess about their possible worth per foe. Thus just noting how many hits in rapid succession it takes to cause the state. It doesn't appear to apply to Parasites or Honky Tonk. Cyclops Berserker's 'dizzy' (stun) seems damage based mostly, but stun does work around that though...it's possible some case are negligible (beyond my testing), but I'll just note them with a 0.

Bah, the area won't work. The guy I'd be testing on cannot be 'stunned' and his back-up can't be tested on well thanks to the bad checkpoint. Let's move this to the next chance they give for such things. Three Infected Humans.

Looking like stun options are extremely limited (like rage building). Bad. Just bad. I wonder if all foes that can be stunned have the same total. That would mean two quick t0's would dizzy the Cyclops Berserker even if the damage to cause this wasn't enough. I'll have to test that. Not likely the case as I've seen a Sword Toss fail to stun in one use, but maybe one of its two hits didn't land? Hard to say. Slight AoE on the Sword Toss impact. Catches groups in dizzy. There seems to be a case where t0/t3 can allow for rage build-up on other moves. It takes 5 quick s1s after landing one t0 (2 hits), but that would imply 10 quick s1s should do it too, yet that isn't the case. I'm not sure what's going on here, but some moves can gain stun (after t0 anyway), while others don't seem to have the potential.

I've seen infinitely dizzy Grunts and even 'wandering' Grunts in 'dizzy' state now. CG didn't cause stun state before killing targets, but when t0 was done before it, the foe near the CG impact was stunned. I'm not sure what to make of this nonsense with stuns in general. The system isn't as clear as before. It might have been too OP previously, but now it feels extremely iffy. Seems the Cyclops is beyond 'stuns' aside from Sword Toss. Things aren't as accurate as I'd like, but I don't think I can help that here.

s1 - 0

s2 - 0

s3 - 0

s4a - 0

s4b *rage* - 0

s5 *rage* - 0

s6 *rage* - see: s4a

t1 - 0

t2 *rage bounce?; need lvl3 to test* - ...

t3 *rage bounce* - 4 *?*

t0 *rage bounce* - 4 *each use can hit twice*

T - 0

air s1 - 0

air s2 - 0

air s3 - 0

air t1 *rage bounce* - 0

L3 - ...

(sprint) s1 - 0

(sprint) t1 - 0

(sprint) o1 - 0

(Unarmed) o1 - 0

(Unarmed) o1a - 0 *only evade cancels and the first hit strings to the rest now*

(Unarmed) o2 - 0

(Unarmed) o3 - 2 *good luck landing two of these back to back*

(Unarmed) O - 0

(Sword) o1 - 0

(Sword) o2 - 0

(Sword) o3 - 0

(Sword) o4 *stun/knockback* - 0

(Sword) O - 0

(Sword) o1a - 0

(Sword) Evade O *knockback* - 0

(Javelin) o1 - 0

(Javelin) O *trampling, strong stun* - 0

Tether - ...

(Unarmed) air o1 - 0

(Sword) air o1 - 0

(Sword) air O - 0

(Javelin) air o1 - 0

(Javelin) air O - 0

L1+x (Parry) - ...

(counter) Spartan Revenge - *testing later maybe*

(Unarmed) L1+o - 0

(Sword) L1+o - 1

(Javelin) L1+o - 0

(Unarmed) air L1+o - 0

(Sword) air L1+o - 1

(Javelin) air L1+o - 0

(Tether) CG - 0

(Tether) s1 - 0 *5 on non-Tethered target*

(Tether) s2 - see: s1

(Tether) WB - 0 *against others it seems like 2-4 depending on speed*

(Tether) Toss - 0

(Tether) OH 'Slam' - see: WB

(Tether) air OS 'STRP' - see: WB *good luck landing these*

(Tether) Battering Ram - 0

---

>missed all this
Oh?

>pause cutscenes
Yes. I'd rather have the PS button as an option to let the (unskippable) cutscene play out while I attend other matters.

>pleased with this
I might have been, if the 'classic' parry was what you gain at lvl2, but that's not what they did. It's nice for PAIN+, but crap for about every other run (as we lose parries for them too). Why couldn't rage also be lvl2 like in GoW1? It's because they wanted to de-emphasize the 'old' and put focus on what they've done to the system (their bastardization efforts). There wasn't much hope for them allowing one to ignore their stupid 'auto-rage' (that isn't even a f***ing rage to begin with) and the bulls*** elemental variants needed for specials, proper hit properties, etc.

>usually annoyed with these
GoW1's was fine as it was the jump input which you cannot do out of an evade anyway (not without an attack cancel). Achilles' Flip was good for this and the set-up option while not being too risky. The input issue isn't so severe here as these are done with a HELD input, not a tap while coming out of an evade. The problem I instead cite is that the true Athena's Wrath was never made good (instead, they gave up and just made it Fury which might also be 'Valor' in this game *having it for THREE uniquely named moves) and it could have been, they didn't bring back the best evade, they gave us a sprint appropriate case and the 'rush' is no good. Their selection, implementation, etc. could have been so very much better.

>turn moves off
I wish you could also try before you buy (if not selling back *but that's obviously too easy to exploit*)...like Bayonetta.

>say the latter
Seems like there just aren't parries without lvl2.

>get this a lot
Yep. She's just especially obnoxious. Gratingly so.

>perfect evade scrapped
In regards to getting anything for it? Yes. No rage meter building, no special gains of any sort really. Even DmC found a way to reward it that might have suited GoW for MAX BoC (but no need to make it THAT overpowered). We had Bayonetta for an example of making evades offensive and defensive, but that wasn't heeded either. They were too focused on their stupid, mandated, milking scheme.

>rage only
Yes.

>unskippable cutscene before checkpoint
Absolutely unforgivable.

>somewhat
Yeah, about that...rather than being OP, most of the things noted as such are simply the polar opposite now (absolute garbage). Our options to get rage or stun are severely limited and tastelessly done. Rather than encouraging the least used moves, they're rewarding people for using the same bulls*** they've relied on since the first game (mash light *rage* and plume *stun*). F***ing stupid **bleep** should have released this back in August (and take their 'feedback' like men).

>always enjoyable
Too much so. There just isn't enough challenge, so it needs a crutch like foes ringing us out or make it possible to wander off the stage to your death. Honky Tonk encounter one could be much more interesting with the moving platform if you could actually be flung off with a hit or leave the ground while it moves around only to land on nothing. Instead, boringly safe all of the time. Their alternative 'hit conditions' (lesser versions of bounce, knockback, etc.)...the corruption of GoS spread. It's all gone to s*** and collisions with it. Nerfed straight to Hell.

>good for lots of hits trophy
It would be if they didn't disable hit count for most of these cases with an exploitable, unkillable dizzy state foe. It's sort of like how they disable EXP drops on foes that infinitely respawn after you kill enough of them (GoW1 did this, but descriptor bonuses were a work around for that *especially petrification*).

>wise
But too limited, too weak while not infinite, too incapable of building stun (or rage), unable to hit the boss, etc. Rather than being too good (old demo), it is too terrible (new demo). This happened a lot in their 'tuning' process. As I've said, "B-Team" is being too generous.

>stun exploits fixed
With a hammer. They went too far. As I noted, many cases that had 'strong stuns' and didn't need them did lose them. That's good. Some that did need them (and more notable cases like knockback), lost them. Worse though would be truly strong stuns that cannot lock down like in the past, but I suppose that just prevents absolute locking of the likes of Cyclops. Forgivable, quite unlike making t1, t0, etc. not so hot for set-up. Hell, even with 'rage', t1 doesn't bounce now.

>which one was this
(R),x. (R),t was Athena's Wrath. Making that safer with a cancel option, making the shockwave semi-homing or have higher hit properties (stun build-up or rage even), etc. would give it utility if not just making each shockwave a light bit of damage that can travel through obstructions (utility enough). They just never really tried to make it work. It's hard enough to even aim that **bleep** move and they want to make it crap while it takes up our evade into quick heavy option? Well, they made it a held input, so that won't happen, but they made the heavy in question weak and lacking in set-up while unable to have a 'quick' version. So...good job?

>makes sense
Yep. Also the potentially game breaking nature of lvl5 for MP drops, rage dump (HP and instant kill with damage perk and i-frames) and stuns (which I'll have to test now that I've worked with default stuns). You see, problem is, I CANNOT get lvl5 BoC in a reasonable time frame by means of the Cyclops Berserker and use it on a foe that actually has a stun state. They don't let you just kill the Berserker when riding it or let it toss you off (implying I didn't choose the wording on purpose). So really, I guess I cannot test to see how effective stuns become. But then, they could be THREE TIMES stronger and it wouldn't matter as the damage to stun ratio is such that you will kill them before they reach stun state most of the time. Your only hope is Sword Toss in a vanilla run where you run around upgrading the BoC (not sure why you would do this and not just go for damage kills). I guess with lvl5, the non-buffed Punch 3 of Unarmed WW would be a contender. Maybe. Theoretically.

>dev decision
It would be neat if it were their call to put crashes in. Jokes aside, I'm sure it's the executives at work again (putting it on some crap movie of theirs, not just releasing the demos sensibly, forcing MP, dumb social games, DLC abuses (patch abuse in the future), etc.

>how annoying
Very annoying. WHY is that back? GoWII fixed it. What conceivable reason is there to ever want to do this again? There isn't one.

>breaking games for us
Not her first rodeo on that front.

>little use
LotF of GoW1 was quality. GoWIII's selection for the BoE was pretty much all good regarding block variants. The evade, switch and held were pretty crap though. Beyond fighting, some specials had glitching utility. At any rate, the specials are said to be tied to elements, so expect L1+s and L1+t to return for each one, but slightly different (perhaps just for the ender of each, damage dealt and hit properties). Multi-hit attacks would only be welcomed by me for ice. I don't feel I should have to explain that.

>can't wait
I'm "GMG" anyway. As for the move, none of the WWs are listed in the movelist section. It's another oversight along with the missing 'menu' for total time, total kills, total orbs, highest combo, total deaths, grab kills, etc. to verify what the player has been doing. I'd like that list of things to expand to cover parries/blocks performed, perfect evades done, chests opened, etc. (telling on players who might think to break rules).

>rage required
As before, we have s1, s2, s3 and t1 of the classic moveset. Well, "t1" from GoWIII/GoS. Said move is weaker (nerfed) *maybe this demo changes that* and lacks the hit property of a bounce (even in rage in this build). "s2" and "s3" chain into t0 (Plume) just fine. "s3" can lead into their new 's4a' (Fury) which seems to replace Valor in this build (entirely whereas s6 still existed in rage after s5 or t2 in the other). You need lvl3 to get "t2" (for stringing to s6 or t3 quickly), but it also has to be in rage (which will anger many). "t3" can be accessed at lvl1 with the 'long' route (after "s5"), but 's4b' (original s4) and "s5" require rage. Problem with this build's "t2" is that it doesn't string to s4a or s6 despite the game claiming to unlock Valor (even noting the input).

>become Prototype
The moment they made Magaera a parasite hive. Despite being the 'brawler' of the sisters, she is running away all the time (not at all like Ares as initially implied) and summoning aid? She's become an inferior Theseus (GoWII). She doesn't even back up her creations (in the demo). I don't expect that Parasites will be able to actively infect NPCs (meaning we could stop it to simply things or allow it for some other purpose *more exp and the like*). Nevermind them being more interesting by infecting higher level foes. That would be truly neat, but won't happen. Too much work for something that isn't their focus (SP). Missed opportunity.

>suck anyway
It cannot hit the boss and does **bleep** for damage, but the stun is extremely strong (not so useful for trash you can already grab, but against a Berserker, that speeds things along).

>so you know
Why not name each area and save me the trouble of having to make it up as a I go for a run skeleton? Lazy **bleep**. I'll only have their checkpoints for reference at this rate (no talk of a guide for that purpose either).

>after killing Furies
>why any surprise about Ares
Why would they tolerate our existence, not fear us, etc.? It doesn't make sense. They mock us like we're nothing even after GoWII when we kill the Fates and they know we did. One could argue only Gaia and Zeus knew...but then, why did they act like it wasn't a thing that happened?

>why they choose Kratos to kill Ares
...

>doesn't sound enjoyable
The good news is that most attacks don't build meter and the heavier cases don't build appreciable amounts while you can block (rather than evade) to defend while letting the meter drain *or opt to purposefully take a hit to instantly lose meter*. The bad news is that this is a s*** system for challenge runners and vanilla players. Nobody wins.

---

I will use 'kill' even when that doesn't apply sometimes just because I can do as I please. Who is going to argue? This said, let's start. I'd do lvl5 testing, but that seems like a pain in the **bleep** as I won't have anything but Honky Tonk and Parasites to work with.

Maybe after all this, I'll set-up lvl5, get Honky Tonk dizzy, let him recover, figure out how much damage it takes to get him to dizzy state again and work with that for testing. If it isn't enough for a full use of a move, it won't be useful and I'll need him healthy for testing (which would make it take longer). Sure are a lot of attacks with nerfs in damage.

Boy, oh boy do I like being able to aim my tosses in defiance of targeting using the (L) and (R) trick. Same for a bit better control of who I Tether using it. Managed to spare the pacifst Infect Human and proceed without killing the last of his kind. Tried to bring him to the upper level, but he left the platform before I could air OS him up there.

s1 - 2

s2 - 2

s3 - 2 *two points weaker than previous build*

s4a - 4 *six point weaker than previous build*

s4b *rage* - 2/2

s5 *rage* - 2/2

s6 *rage* - 6 *treated like a unique move; Valor was two points stronger than this*

t1 - 4 *one point stronger than the previous build, two weaker than normal*

t2 *rage bounce?; need lvl3 to test* - ...

t3 *rage bounce* - 2/9/9 *primary hits twice like GoWII, but three points weaker for each; this build adds a hit for the 'whip' motion as in some older entries*

t0 *rage bounce* - 4/4 *hits twice like GoWII, but two points weaker for each*

T - 2 *lvl3 perk should make it worth more than 4 damage when I get there*

air s1 - 2

air s2 - 2

air s3 - 2 *two points weaker*

air t1 *rage bounce* - 1.5/1.5 *0.5 weaker for each hit*

L3 - ...

(sprint) s1 - 2

(sprint) t1 - 2

(sprint) o1 - 2

L1+x (Parry) - Need lvl2 to test *maybe later*

(counter) Spartan Revenge - *testing later maybe*

(Unarmed) o1 - 2

(Unarmed) o1a - 1

(Unarmed) o2 - 1

(Unarmed) o3 - 1

(Unarmed) O - 2

(Unarmed) air o1 - 2

(Unarmed) L1+o - 2

(Unarmed) air L1+o - 2

(Sword) o1 - 2

(Sword) o2 - 2

(Sword) o3 - 2

(Sword) o4 *stun/knockback* - 2

(Sword) O - 2 damage hits

(Sword) o1a - 2/2

(Sword) Evade O *knockback* - 2

(Sword) air o1 - 2

(Sword) air O - 2 damage hits

(Sword) L1+o - 4 *now a single hit rather than two 2 damage hits*

(Sword) air L1+o - 4

---

>buried in the bickering
An afternoon delight, it is.

>lvl1 parry without returns
That's GoW1 talk. GoW:A did as away with that as of this demo build. Now it's just a block. CoO had a lvl1 parry. This doesn't.

>haven't done it since GoW1
Rage? This hardly counts as the same thing, but they seem to like calling it by that, so I'll humor them. Being forced into it (auto-activation) is part of the issue. Having it take away from non-rage state is another matter entirely. It isn't 'adding', it is taking away and giving back. They've made the whole system worse to accommodate this nonsense.

>accidental inputs
Which a held input fixes (I believe CoO used that too). The issue rests with the moves themselves not being worth a **bleep**.

>buy everything
Unnecessary encouraging of farming, chest collecting, etc. Action bogged down by the conventions of other genres.

>no big loss
It isn't just losing 'perfect' parry, it is losing parry entirely. What they leave (for those not doing NUR or higher) is a horrible bastardization born of the MP's particular flavor of cancer.

>play video games
I'll believe it when I see it. And what they 'play', I'm sure they don't do well at. Bunch of filthy ...do I even have to say it?

>dizzy
In the old games, 'dizzy' was just a "O" state where they would briefly be open to a grab, while 'wander' was when they kept going, but had a "O". General was when you could grab them whenever. I've yet to see a foe with an intended 'wander' state among foes. Gold halo is 'dizzy' from stun (specific unit on attacks) while red halo is 'grab kill' (dizzy in old sense) from damage enough to bring them near death. Attacks that 'stun' (stagger if it helps to differentiate) as with heavy attacks (t0, t1, etc.) don't necessarily provide high stun build-up. "t0" does, but "t1" doesn't. The weakest move (punch string) has better 'stun build-up' than most moves while only having decent stagger (against Minor Grunts) with the last hit (which seems to negate blocks of Sword users).

>probably would have worked on it more
And could have fixed it if they released the demo when the build was made (August). This is entirely the fault of MP focus.

>loss of knockback
"t0", "t3" and other such moves caused bounce with heavy stun (stagger). Not knockback. "s6" caused knockback (the real one), but they removed it in this build and replaced it with Fury even for 's6' (but forgot to replace it for 's6' after 't2' and left nothing instead). Knockback was best for causing attack (rather than grab) based collisions, re-positioning, wall splat/collision abuse, causing ring-out, etc. Losing it is a blow to combat as a whole. All these pretender 'knockbacks' added are just annoying reminders of their stupidity.

>don't need them at all
You cannot 'knockback' a Cyclops to begin with. I'm not referring to 'pushing back' a foe, I'm referring to sending them flying backwards specifically (off the ground). It's a minor launch with more horizontal movement (blasting foes away). As for locking Cyclops, losing 'knockback' doesn't stop the stun lock at all. It just means you have less moves that cause heavy stun. Making heavy stun not interrupt their attacks (just their neutral state) was a way to prevent absolute locks, but they dropped 'knockback' as a separate concern from this.

>launch
Bounce is a minor launch. Not entirely the same, but closely related. And "t1" doesn't even have it with 'rage'. Air t1 does, but it got nerfed in damage and was cheated for stun value as compared to other moves at its level.

>of course
I'm da boss.

>sister
Yes, one of the three Furies.

>silly rabbit
Trix are for prostitots. As the gent has said in the past.

>breaking down
An old exercise in futility one can engage in time to time.

>pain in the behind
Maybe. Sometimes.

>let it drain before it activates or let it activate and then wait
The same time before it drains (I believe), you just have more to wait for with the latter. Taking a hit doesn't necessarily force the meter to start going down, just takes varying chunks away.

NOTE: Damage testing is about done, but I had boring testing of the HP values for Berserker and Honky Tonk remaining. Not sure I'll bother trying to contend with lvl5 BoC testing. We'll see.

SBK: >Valor counter
They should put that back into the game. Period.

>pretty bad
About covers it.

>gone green
[rage intensifies]

>roll kills
He does have such a move, but the evade is more a 'dodge kill'.

>they've nerfed
About everything, really. My damage coverage (what is available so far), stun coverage and rage coverage help make that clear. I'll be doing the HP testing that remains before releasing the other part of the damage testing. Shouldn't take me too long. Maybe two hours or so once I get started. We shall see.

>the Wraiths
If there are any. Seems like Empusa was meant to take on their traits, but ended up veering into Satyr territory.

>was the weakest to date
And yet it was still 'too good'. Thus being nerfed further.

>didn't have Athena's Blessing
True, true.

>rage intensification
RAGE MIND

>no logical pattern
Just encouraging Plume with stuns (and damage) and light attacks for 'rage' (and with other options suffering nerfs, you could say the gap between them and those moves has been closed somewhat anyway). So t0 whoring and light mashing are being encouraged. What lovely use of mechanics. What a failure of design/execution.

Silver: >consensus
>full game
From vets? Not great.

>greatly disappointing
It's hard to disappoint those with low expectations, but they've managed it so far.

>unbalanced mess
That's the 'Action' (GoW core) at work. Action games are not supposed to be balanced and MP is. Their souls are at odds.

>graphics
Maybe so. I've no eye for it. No ear for sound. I did not notice the bland remix of classic GoW tracks and the super low volume for music compared to everything else though.

>lighting effects
If that was their focus, they failed to surpass GoWIII there too. That's one thing it did well (that few would dispute).

>control
What specific issues would you cite?

>parrying
Taking away (loosely) timed parry was a foolish mistake. They would have been wiser to just copy GoW1's system (returning to basics). That holds true for a lot of what they've done with the system. Sprint should have been able to chain into a grab for 'mount' (HC of GoS). It should also have allowed a rush with knockback that could chain beyond that (or cancel) like Hermes Rush.

Tether would be better as a special (L1+x) along with the Tether specific grab options *lvl2* as targeting issues will crop up and even (L) and (R) won't save it when it targets f***ing chests, levers, dead bodies, etc. despite your inputs (along with the issue GoWIII already had with targeting). Just have regular grab (OS) for R1 as such (and let it keep it's own OH *that does damage, allows for some infinities, can become alt.OH, etc.). That could have the grab select option for minor grunts (used in all past entries). Kratos is a very personal kind of guy and the more grab options (or even melee attacks), the better. Really, GoW is a very grab happy Action game. Far more so than most. So we would have:

-(Sprint) R1 - HC/mount
-(mount) s1 - Punches
-(mount) t1 - Double Axe Handle
-(mount) R1 *or o1* - Toss
-(air) L3 - Air Sprint *downward dive, non-attack without extra inputs*
-(Air Sprint) R1 - HC/mount
-R1 - OS
-(OS) s1 - Varies *probably 360 toss*
-(OS) t1 - Varies *probably instant kill case like head rip, torso rip, etc.*
-(OS) o1 - Varies *orb milk hits leading to instant kill when near enough death*
-(OS) x1 - Varies *probably a toss, but possibly a launcher*
-(ground-to-air) o1 - OH
-(ground-to-air) O - alt.OH *for specific lesser foes with the three types used in GoWII*
-(air) R1 - air OS
-L1+x - Tether
-(Tether) s1/s2 - Slaps
-(Tether) t1 - WB
-(Tether) o1 - Toss *though it should be switched with CG*
-(Tether) x1 - CG *would be better with old properties while allowing quick inputs to cause CG in all old cases from GoWIII*
-(Tether) (R) - Evade
NOTE: Something like air Tether seems like an even higher level upgrade.

>not as good as the Fleece
Naturally.

>miss the Wings
Stheno could have given us such a thing (along with a petrification spell and melee weapons).

---

I'll test Javelin after Tether and collisions. Berserk and Honky Tonk as I go. To note it, Infected Humans reach grab kill/red halo at 5 HP remaining (30 damage dealt). Toss doesn't work well at all when aimed at stairs. CG downhill (downstairs) can hit twice in one use (double damage). Toss cannot lead into red halo.

OH is still 0 damage and still gains lots of rage. We just lack a 0 damage set-up for it right now. I'm able to use T to OH and pull along a wall for a wall collision break-out and repeat to farm rage, but it isn't infinite nor as safe as the old case from the previous demo. Wall collisions are still 0 damage, but the Toss recognizes the wall when dealing damage unlike before (ending that loop of wall toss to OH for rage farming). Hits that disarm still deal damage it would seem.

We don't have 'knockback' (welcome back to GoS), so no knockback collisions. *granted that the previous build had them dealing no damage anyway* Had a glitch with Javelin held input not coming out and wasting ammo. Yeah, it keeps happening. Pretty sure I got '5' damage from the held case before it stopped letting me use heavy Javelin tosses though. I'll have to approximate Cyclops attacks at around 15 damage. Can't really test it. Grapples seem more scripted than before (only works one way). Hit detection during 'pin' is really bad. Hit box/collision is awful too. Cancels (block/evade) for s4a don't work as reliably as they should.

Honky Tonk S1P1 is 40HP. S1P2 is 56HP. Letting him recover gives him 12HP. S2P1 is 37HP. S2P2 is 35HP. Letting him recover gives him 12HP. Cyclops Berserker has 125HP to dizzy state. Recovers to 10HP. Apparently the 'shield is a weapon of protection that can stun enemies on discard' (according to the game). Some attacks don't work on S3 Honky Tonky it seems (or at least they have even more trouble actually counting even when they do connect).

I'm afraid the issue with hit detection is so severe, I cannot properly test Stage 3. Figures might be a little off. Honky Tonk S3P1 has 60HP and recovers to 15HP. S3P2 has 60HP and recovers to 15HP. S3P3 has 39HP and recovers to15HP. 12-15 damage to make it recoil during 'pin'. I would give an exact value, but so often hits were dropped despite making impact (not counting for damage), I wasn't getting consistent results. I'm thinking 12 though.

(Javelin) o1 - 1 *one unit weaker*

(Javelin) O *trampling, strong stun* - 5 *3 points stronger*

(Javelin) air o1 - 1

(Javelin) air O - 5

(Javelin) L1+o - 3 damage per hit *up two points; same for 'dump'*

(Javelin) air L1+o - 3 damage per hit

Tether - 0

(Tether) CG - 10 *5 points stronger*

(Tether) s1 - 2

(Tether) s2 - 2

(Tether) WB - 7

(Tether) Toss - 10 *up seven points*

(Tether) OH 'Slam' - 0

(Tether) air OS 'STRP' - 7

(Tether) Battering Ram - 0 *kill if combined with wall collision*

(Tether) BR Toss - 8 *strangely difficult to pin down*

(Tether) Parasite OS - kill

(Tether) Torso rip/head rip - kill

(Tether) Cyclops Berserker QTE - kill

(Tether) Honky Tonk QTE 1 - kill

(Tether) Honky Tonk QTE 2 - kill

(Tether) Honky Tonk QTE 3 - kill

(Tether) Honky Tonk QTE 4 - kill

(Tether) Honky Tonk QTE 5 - kill

(Reversal) Honky Tonk grab - 0

COLLISIONS

Walls - 0 damage

Object - N/A *not in demo*

WB - 0/6 *Target/Agent*

OH - 0/6

Battering Ram - 0/3 *repeat hits seem to be of lesser quality...perhaps one damage each; so 6 of them would be 8 damage*

Toss - 0/15 *bump to BR Toss status; extremely inconsistent*

BR Toss - 0/5 *drop by ten points; inconsistent*

Parasite toss - 0/5

STRP - 0/0

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