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Lombax Warrior
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Re: What happened to ffxii characters???

Jul 2, 2009

Beowulf304 wrote:

Who was the person who designed the ffxii characters? Because they did a @#% job...There was no character developement at all... I mean there weren't any cool characters like Auron or Vinncent, for example. Characters that make you want to be like them, or characters you don't want to leave out of every battle. With FFX, I was bitting at the bit to get Auron back after you lose him in the beginning... And at the end of FFXII I didn't give a crap about any of the characters, just that Vaan was puss and everyone one else? well I still didn't care.

 

So basicly what happened? What was SE thinking?

 

The only character in FFXIII that interests me is Lightning, she's like Cloud but a girl. HEY! Lightning comes from Clouds! Wonder if that had anything to do with the name...

Message Edited by Beowulf304 on 07-01-2009 11:26 PM

I always get a hearty chuckle when people bring up character development, mainly because they don't know what the hell they are talking about.  Being awesome and likable does not equal character development.  Character development is the growth and change of a character throughout a story.  So now please tell me how Vincent or Auron are more developed than Ashe or Vaan.
 
FFXII has a very different presentation than most FFs.  It doesn't spoon-feed the children every little detail, you actually have to look between the lines to learn things. 

 

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Monster Hunter
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Re: What happened to ffxii characters???

Jul 2, 2009

JohnnyBadger wrote:

Beowulf304 wrote:

Who was the person who designed the ffxii characters? Because they did a @#% job...There was no character developement at all... I mean there weren't any cool characters like Auron or Vinncent, for example. Characters that make you want to be like them, or characters you don't want to leave out of every battle. With FFX, I was bitting at the bit to get Auron back after you lose him in the beginning... And at the end of FFXII I didn't give a crap about any of the characters, just that Vaan was puss and everyone one else? well I still didn't care.

 

So basicly what happened? What was SE thinking?

 

The only character in FFXIII that interests me is Lightning, she's like Cloud but a girl. HEY! Lightning comes from Clouds! Wonder if that had anything to do with the name...

Message Edited by Beowulf304 on 07-01-2009 11:26 PM

I always get a hearty chuckle when people bring up character development, mainly because they don't know what the hell they are talking about.  Being awesome and likable does not equal character development.  Character development is the growth and change of a character throughout a story.  So now please tell me how Vincent or Auron are more developed than Ashe or Vaan.
 
FFXII has a very different presentation than most FFs.  It doesn't spoon-feed the children every little detail, you actually have to look between the lines to learn things. 

 


oh yeah? Vaan seems to still be the same whiny person he was at the beginning.  And you learned things about Auron and Vinncent, about their past, you developed a story about them in your head after you hear their stories.  And Balthier... Did we ever here about his and Frans past? no they just left you hanging.  The only person you really get any history on is Vaan, and to say the least, its pretty boring.  Ok Ashe, she lost her husband and some how she was able to fake her death, but HOW did she? They leave so many unanswered questions.  The characters are just boring, the hardly seem to interact with each other.  I mean if they would have had Balthier and Vaan become really close friends would have been cool. They kinda started on it but never went any farther then Balthier showing Vaan how to run the Airship. The game has a lot to be desired in these areas.  Every cut scene seemed to be about what's happening in the world around not what's happening to them... Nethecite, Wars, Swords that cut nethecite but seem to suck in battle.  I got really bored with the story and yeah I know what I'm talking about, if you want argue further be my guest.

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Monster Hunter
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Re: What happened to ffxii characters???

Jul 2, 2009
nice to see how FFXII fanboys are kudoing people who defend the game. Real worthy reason for a kudo.... Gotta stick together when your so few in number...
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First Son
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Re: What happened to ffxii characters???

Jul 2, 2009

the character development in this game is almost non existent. the focus really seems to be on the Ivalice world than on the characters as individual.

 

and yes, if a character has a strong development, then you will relate to him and like him. i feel like this should have been a side game instead of a main FF game. but that's just me.

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I Only Post Everything
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Re: What happened to ffxii characters???

Jul 2, 2009

FFXII was good for all the reasons you said sucked.  Character development was much stronger than other FF's; as another guy already said you're confusing character development with character likeability.  You thought Vincent and Auron were cool, but if you look at their "development" they are just badasses with little to no backstory (unless you play Dirge of Cerebrus, obviously).  Vaan and Ashe on the other hand, while not as "likeable" because they aren't awesome or anything, go through great development and growth and that actually surpised me.  I was suprised by so much put into the characters of this one; not that they were the greatest or coolest FF characters, but just how much was put into them.

 

Story wise I felt the game held true to all other FF's: little guy is being supressed by big guy and the underdog has to save them all.  As for Esper use, I don't remember the last FF game I used Esper's in to actually help me, so there was nothing new in the fact they were pretty much useless.

At the end of the day though, opinion's are opinion's and everyone has them.  Don't hate on FFXII so much just because you didn't like it.  The fact that others regard it as the best means it had SOMETHING worthwhile in it.  I hated FFVIII but some regard it as truely the best, so I take it with a grain of salt :smileytongue:

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First Son
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Re: What happened to ffxii characters???

Jul 2, 2009

SabinKenobi wrote:

Vaan and Ashe on the other hand, while not as "likeable" because they aren't awesome or anything, go through great development and growth and that actually surpised me.  I was suprised by so much put into the characters of this one; not that they were the greatest or coolest FF characters, but just how much was put into them.



 

 

 

Could you elaborate more on how Van and Ashe grow as the game goes on? Maybe I need to be enlighten on their character development.

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Monster Hunter
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Re: What happened to ffxii characters???

Jul 2, 2009

de5gravity wrote:

SabinKenobi wrote:

Vaan and Ashe on the other hand, while not as "likeable" because they aren't awesome or anything, go through great development and growth and that actually surpised me.  I was suprised by so much put into the characters of this one; not that they were the greatest or coolest FF characters, but just how much was put into them.



 

 

 

Could you elaborate more on how Van and Ashe grow as the game goes on? Maybe I need to be enlighten on their character development.


Yes, what he said.  I didn't see any character developement at all.  Really, because Ashe still seemed to be a stuck up *female dog* and Vaan still seemed like he went from being a bawl baby to a cry baby at best.

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Lombax Warrior
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Re: What happened to ffxii characters???

Jul 2, 2009

Beowulf304 wrote:

JohnnyBadger wrote:

Beowulf304 wrote:

Who was the person who designed the ffxii characters? Because they did a @#% job...There was no character developement at all... I mean there weren't any cool characters like Auron or Vinncent, for example. Characters that make you want to be like them, or characters you don't want to leave out of every battle. With FFX, I was bitting at the bit to get Auron back after you lose him in the beginning... And at the end of FFXII I didn't give a crap about any of the characters, just that Vaan was puss and everyone one else? well I still didn't care.

 

So basicly what happened? What was SE thinking?

 

The only character in FFXIII that interests me is Lightning, she's like Cloud but a girl. HEY! Lightning comes from Clouds! Wonder if that had anything to do with the name...

Message Edited by Beowulf304 on 07-01-2009 11:26 PM

I always get a hearty chuckle when people bring up character development, mainly because they don't know what the hell they are talking about.  Being awesome and likable does not equal character development.  Character development is the growth and change of a character throughout a story.  So now please tell me how Vincent or Auron are more developed than Ashe or Vaan.
 
FFXII has a very different presentation than most FFs.  It doesn't spoon-feed the children every little detail, you actually have to look between the lines to learn things. 

 


oh yeah? Vaan seems to still be the same whiny person he was at the beginning.  And you learned things about Auron and Vinncent, about their past, you developed a story about them in your head after you hear their stories.  And Balthier... Did we ever here about his and Frans past? no they just left you hanging.  The only person you really get any history on is Vaan, and to say the least, its pretty boring.  Ok Ashe, she lost her husband and some how she was able to fake her death, but HOW did she? They leave so many unanswered questions.  The characters are just boring, the hardly seem to interact with each other.  I mean if they would have had Balthier and Vaan become really close friends would have been cool. They kinda started on it but never went any farther then Balthier showing Vaan how to run the Airship. The game has a lot to be desired in these areas.  Every cut scene seemed to be about what's happening in the world around not what's happening to them... Nethecite, Wars, Swords that cut nethecite but seem to suck in battle.  I got really bored with the story and yeah I know what I'm talking about, if you want argue further be my guest.


Oh, yeah.  Alrighty then...
 
Wrong.  The keyword in your statement was "seems".  If you payed attention to the story, you learn why Vaan wants to be a sky-pirate, and how he matures and learns to face his problems.  How is Vaan whiny?  If Vaan is whiny then Vincent certainly is.
And you can't do the same for the FFXII cast?
Yes, in fact, you do.  If you were to go back and replay FFXII, about 50% of Balthier's lines relate to his past.  Fran's ark started and finished in Eruyt Village.  Ashe's death was announced by her uncle, the Marquis Ondore.  Ashe never faked her death, she just went into hiding.  How in the hell did Auron ride Sin to the dream Zanarkand?  How did he get killed by Yunalesca, but still have the strength to go to Mt. Gagazet?
No they don't.
I can see your point, BUT, FFXII isn't about the characters.  It's about Ivalice.  It's about Dalamasca gaining freedom.  It's about man regaining control over history.  Having the cast talk about their favorite colors just isn't fitting in a mature, political driven story.  Yeah, I would have liked some more interaction from the cast, but it's all irrelevant to the bigger picture.
 It's on...! :smileywink:

 

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Monster Hunter
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Re: What happened to ffxii characters???

Jul 2, 2009

JohnnyBadger wrote:

Beowulf304 wrote:

JohnnyBadger wrote:

Beowulf304 wrote:

Who was the person who designed the ffxii characters? Because they did a @#% job...There was no character developement at all... I mean there weren't any cool characters like Auron or Vinncent, for example. Characters that make you want to be like them, or characters you don't want to leave out of every battle. With FFX, I was bitting at the bit to get Auron back after you lose him in the beginning... And at the end of FFXII I didn't give a crap about any of the characters, just that Vaan was puss and everyone one else? well I still didn't care.

 

So basicly what happened? What was SE thinking?

 

The only character in FFXIII that interests me is Lightning, she's like Cloud but a girl. HEY! Lightning comes from Clouds! Wonder if that had anything to do with the name...

Message Edited by Beowulf304 on 07-01-2009 11:26 PM

I always get a hearty chuckle when people bring up character development, mainly because they don't know what the hell they are talking about.  Being awesome and likable does not equal character development.  Character development is the growth and change of a character throughout a story.  So now please tell me how Vincent or Auron are more developed than Ashe or Vaan.
 
FFXII has a very different presentation than most FFs.  It doesn't spoon-feed the children every little detail, you actually have to look between the lines to learn things. 

 


oh yeah? Vaan seems to still be the same whiny person he was at the beginning.  And you learned things about Auron and Vinncent, about their past, you developed a story about them in your head after you hear their stories.  And Balthier... Did we ever here about his and Frans past? no they just left you hanging.  The only person you really get any history on is Vaan, and to say the least, its pretty boring.  Ok Ashe, she lost her husband and some how she was able to fake her death, but HOW did she? They leave so many unanswered questions.  The characters are just boring, the hardly seem to interact with each other.  I mean if they would have had Balthier and Vaan become really close friends would have been cool. They kinda started on it but never went any farther then Balthier showing Vaan how to run the Airship. The game has a lot to be desired in these areas.  Every cut scene seemed to be about what's happening in the world around not what's happening to them... Nethecite, Wars, Swords that cut nethecite but seem to suck in battle.  I got really bored with the story and yeah I know what I'm talking about, if you want argue further be my guest.


Oh, yeah.  Alrighty then...
 
Wrong.  The keyword in your statement was "seems".  If you payed attention to the story, you learn why Vaan wants to be a sky-pirate, and how he matures and learns to face his problems.  How is Vaan whiny?  If Vaan is whiny then Vincent certainly is.
And you can't do the same for the FFXII cast?
Yes, in fact, you do.  If you were to go back and replay FFXII, about 50% of Balthier's lines relate to his past.  Fran's ark started and finished in Eruyt Village.  Ashe's death was announced by her uncle, the Marquis Ondore.  Ashe never faked her death, she just went into hiding.  How in the hell did Auron ride Sin to the dream Zanarkand?  How did he get killed by Yunalesca, but still have the strength to go to Mt. Gagazet?
No they don't.
I can see your point, BUT, FFXII isn't about the characters.  It's about Ivalice.  It's about Dalamasca gaining freedom.  It's about man regaining control over history.  Having the cast talk about their favorite colors just isn't fitting in a mature, political driven story.  Yeah, I would have liked some more interaction from the cast, but it's all irrelevant to the bigger picture.
 It's on...! :smileywink:

 


ok I see why you like it because of the Big Picture.  That's why I don't like it.  And I guess I missed a lot of the story line just because it bored me to death and I didn't really pay attention.

 

Anyway what I'm saying is, I guess some people like storylines about the big picture and some people enjoy the smaller things.  But most final fantasy's had BOTH.  Like FFVII there is an epic story about teh end of the world and the fate of man, but they don't skip the smaller details like the love story of cloud and aries (however its spelt)  FFXII did the main idea fine, but it was missing the character interaction.Which I care a lot about.

 

To me, the game never seemed like the fate of the world was in your hands. But more like the outcome of however the war turned out.

 

And I know they tell you a lot things about Balthier's past, but they never showed anything, they never expanded on anything, there's was nothing signifigant about the character's pasts that would having anything to do with the present game except MAYBE for Basch.

 

Also you don't really know much about the characters at all like other FFs for exmple:

Tidus: **bleep**y headed, full of himself at the beginning. More caring and compationate at the end

Auron: Tough guy, keeps to himself, cares about others, quiet

Yuna: Very caring, she knows how other people feel

Cloud: Warrior confused about his past

Vincent: Depressed and quite, still tough

Aries: Again, very nice, caring

 

Now for FFXII

Vaan: uhh, whiny?

Balthier: kinda witty

Basch: ???

Ashe: stuck up

Penelo: nice, cares about vaan

Fran: ???

 

see what I mean?

Message Edited by Beowulf304 on 07-02-2009 12:05 PM
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Lombax Warrior
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Re: What happened to ffxii characters???

Jul 2, 2009

Beowulf304 wrote:
nice to see how FFXII fanboys are kudoing people who defend the game. Real worthy reason for a kudo.... Gotta stick together when your so few in number...
You sure are mature chief.
 
Vaan- We meet Vaan as a petty thief.  Backtracking a bit, we learn he was orphaned when the plague came and took his parents.  He grew up with his brother Reks.  When Archades and Rozzaria enter war, Archadia begins a march across Ivalice, conquering all the small countries.  Landis was the first to fall, then Nabudis.  Not wanting war, Dalmasca prepares to sign a treaty with Archades.  Reks enlists in the military and is severely injured.  Reks soon dies afterward.  Back to the present, we Vaan proclaiming he wants to be a sky pirate.  Later in the game at Jahara, Vaan tells Ashe that he only says he wants to sky pirate as a way to run away from his problems.  For the rest of the game we see Vaan more mature and facing his problems head on.
 
Ashe- Ashe is the princess of Dalmasca.  She married the prince of Nabudis, Rassler.  Rassler dies in war.  When Ashe's father is assasinated, the Marquis Ondore announces that she commited suicide.  Ashe goes into hiding, plotting with the Resistance in order to take back her throne. ** Now before we go on any further with Ashe, I'd like to clear up things with Ashe's attitude.  She is stern and confident.  After you get robbed of throne, I think you would be angry.  She can't go around complementing people and making tea for them, she has to save her kingdom. **  Now back to Ashe.  When nethicite comes into the picture, it's really where her ark starts.  For the rest of the game she is in a search for power.  When confronted by the Occuria, she learns of how history was governed by the Occuria.  At the Ridoran Cataract, Ashe is given the oppurtunity to get the power she needs to take back her thrown.  In fear that she would play puppet to Occuria, and end up thirsty for power like Vayne, Ashe destroys the nethicite.
 
Balthier-  Balthier is the son of Doctor Cid, the head of the Draklor Laboratory.  Doctor Cid uses his power in the Archades government to appoint Balthier as a judge.  After the destruction of Nabudis, Balthier is disgusted by Archades, and how his father is changing.  Balthier relinquishes his title as judge and runs away to become a sky pirate.  When he bumps into Vaan and gets entangled in story, Balthier decides to stick it out with the gang in order to see things through with his father and Archades.

 

 

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