Oct 5, 2008 6:18 PM
Logitech Racing Wheels MEGA REVIEW.
I designed it to be a good resource for prospective buyers and I think it should be looked at by anyone considering getting a new gaming wheel for use with Gran Turismo. I think this topic is sticky worthy. If there are some things that need to be changed or added in order to make this a sticky please tell me. If you have to power to make this thread a sticky please do so.
Intro
This review is designed to help you decide what wheel for Gran Turismo (GT) is right for you. I am only using GT as a medium and no other racing simulator. The experience may differ with another game. I will be reviewing the 3 main Logitech wheels that are out on the market, the Driving force Pro (DFP), the Driving Force GT (DFGT) and the Logitech G25 racing wheel (G25). I will be looking at each individually and against each other. I will factor in both GT4 and GT5 Prologue as the 2 main games that will be used with these wheels.
(I bought the DFGT and G25 off of Amazon for about $400 (total) and they can be returned within 30 days opened for a full refund. Consider this as an option when buying a new wheel.)
If you do not wish to read the entire review you can just skip to the Pros and Cons sections for each wheel and then the conclusion.
Driving Force Pro
This is the veteran, the old timer, the trusty steed. It is outdated but still quite functional. It is built to a high standard and has lasted me 3 years. In those 23 years it has provided endless hours of entertainment and revealed the only time I have seen my father yell at my mother (he was having too much fun to help her cook dinner). It is the first wheel I got and it is still a lot of fun.
That being said it is also a bargain for $106.99 on Amazon. On to the dynamics of the wheel... The DFP gets the top honors for the power of its force feedback (the amount of resistance the wheel gives you during hard turning or going over bumps). There is also a down side to this (which only applies when the wheel is set to a 200 degree turning radius not 900. More on that latter), it is so strong that it can actually be impossible to keep the car steady. Try driving in GT4 on the Nurburgring or any strait in GT5P (with the 200 degree setting) and keeping the wheel steady is close to impossible.
This is not a problem with the 900 degree turn radius (standard settings). This means that you have to turn the wheel 1.25 rotations until it locks (can not turn any more). This is the standard setting for all the wheels I am testing. To my knowledge the DFP is the only wheel with the 200 degree turn radius option on a console. The 200 degree rotation means that you only have to turn the wheel .25 rotations until it locks. Now this incase means that the wheel is a LOT MORE RESPONSIVE. Like RIDICULOUS. Like INSANELY HARD TO CONTROL. But it is easier to make tight turns and correct a loss in traction and drift. (In my opinion, but others may think differently) This setting is only to be used if you are very skilled, strong, and insane. Some race cars act similarly to this but 99% of the cars out there are .75 rotations to 1.25 rotations. (I think...)
The wheel is very easy to use with either, the PC, GT4 or GT5P. The wheel has all the standard PS controller buttons and they are all easy to press. But there is no PS button found on the new PS3 controller. It is also easy to set the buttons for the PC. There is also a sequential knob shifter (press up to shift down and visa versa) on the right side of the wheel. Otherwise most of the shifting will be done with the two buttons behind the wheel (R1 L1). They are not paddles like in a sports car but rather just big buttons. This is a common misconception. The only problem is when you are turning vigorously it can be hard to find these buttons.
The wheel itself is built pretty well. I have had it for 3 years and there are no signs of wear n' tear. It feels solid when you hold it. The wheel is rapped in a rubber grip that is sturdy and none slippery (your hands will get sweaty). The pedals also have a grip for carpets and rubber grips for floors (all wheels have this). It clamps easily to most protruding surfaces and stays on securely. The only things that I find cheap are the sequential shifting knob, the soft pedals and the attachment of the wheel to the housing (it does wobble a little bit (could be from hard use). I would also say it is pretty noisy.
The last aspect of the wheel is its "realism", precision, performance whatever you want to call it. The DFP is defiantly the least realistic (when in 900 degree mode) out of all the wheels it does not really give you that feel of lose of traction or control. The pedals are pretty light and remind me of an econo car. They do no have a very realistic feel. It is the hardest wheel to correct mistakes with. That being said it is more than adequate and is not even close to bad or even unusable. It is just when you compare it to the other wheels it really does not match up. Ah ha but there is another flip side. When the wheel is in 200 degree mode all these problems go away. But then again as these problems go away the skill it takes to drive goes way up.
There is another factor to this. I am not an experienced driver I do not have years and years of driving under my belt. But my father does. He had the first Datsun (Nissan) 240z (which he heavily modified) (which then was heavily totaled by a deer), he has driven an Aston Martin DB9, Ford GT and a Mazda RX-7 R1. I consulted him on each of the wheels and he said that while very hard to control and that no car's wheel gives that much force feedback, the DFP in 200 degree mode is the closest thing to a real sports car. This is his opinion and for all I know he could be completely wrong. Also just because it is close to real life does not make it best for the game.
So why should buy this wheel instead of the other ones? You are on a budget, you do not care about absolute precision, you like a wheel that is flexible in its compatibly and use, you like to have your arms turned to mush by EXTREME force feedback, super exact accelerating and braking are not that important, you like the smell of rubber on your hands, you don't care about small imperfections, you enjoy yelling at your wife because GT is way more important than dinner and you like to have fun.
Pros
-Reliable (has lasted 3yrs of abuse and reuse)
-Very cost effective
-VERY STRONG force feedback
-900 and 200 degree turning radiuses (only wheel to have 200 degree option with GT4/5p)
-200 degree turning radius is close to real life (says my father)
-Decent build quality
-Compatible with all devices
-Ergonomic
-Fun
Cons
-VERY STONG force feedback
-Turns arms to mush
-Pedals are soft and not very realistic
-Build quality is only decent
-Not as good as other wheels in most respects.
-Old
-Makes a lot of noise
Driving Force GT
The DFGT is the new kid on the block. It has a slightly new look and some new features. It is also designed with the PS3 in mind while still working for the PS2. I have not tried it for the PC. While it may seem at first glances to be a DFP with some extra knobs it is in fact a different wheel.
The DFGT is $150 on Amazon and even cheaper elsewhere. Which like the DFP, makes it a good value. The question is, is it worth the $40 hike over the DFP? In my opinion I would say yes. The improvements to the DFGT over the DFP are like the Mustang GT and the standard Mustang respectively. Is 5 grand more for 300hp worth it, hell yeah its worth it. The DFGT is more refined than its older brother. The plastics feels sturdier, the buttons have a better feel when you press them (except for the stupid start/select buttons on the DFGT which feel really cheap and are hard to press at an angle), it just feels like it is better made. Also as stated above the DFGT does not have the 200 degree turning radius option and only has the 900 degree option.
There are also some ergonomic improvements: the L2/R2 buttons are now on the top of the horizontal spokes of the wheel, the L3/R3 buttons now are placed in the upper middle part of the wheel and are shaped like the analog stick on the PSP, the d-pad is about the same as the DFP and the square, triangle, O and X buttons feel a little better. These changes allow for more flexible button configurations. There is also a PS button (that only works in the game not in the XMB). The wheel itself is thinner and easier to grip. The biggest ergonomic change is the inclusion of the "real time adjustable knob" basically there is a red ring (no not the kind the other console always gets) that lets you adjust all most all your car's settings while driving (quick tune). It also lets you scroll through menus with ease. Inside the ring there is a button which brings up and closes this "quick tune menu" and on the left side of the wheel there are two buttons for vertical selection. This is very handy for trying out new settings while driving and actually seeing the effects instantly. It is easy to use even when driving. This feature removes the laborious process of quitting the race changing the settings and then restarting again like in previous GT games. (It is important to note that in the game you can change the DFP or G25's button configuration to enable the use of the quick tune menu. It is just a lot easier with the DFGT) It also has a horn that illuminates when the wheel is plugged in (as of now the horn button has no function).Visit Logitech's website for a more detailed and clearer description on the ‘real time knob thing".
There have also been some performance changes. The pedals look the same but I find that they are slightly more responsive, especially the brake pedal which feels firmer. While the pedal upgrade is nice the biggest improvement is the force feedback. The DFGT is much more responsive and informative than the DFP. Right after I finished hot lapping Suzuka with the ZO6, using the DFP, I switched to the DFGT and boom my time was already a second quicker. The DFGT conveys the sense of over and under steer very well. I would venture to say in this respect it is just as good as the G25. You can really feel the changes in force feedback when you are about to go into a slide. This aspect of the DFGT instantly makes it worth the extra $40. The DFGT's force feedback is not as strong as the DFP's but it is better. It is also considerably quite compared to the DFP.
While there are some improvements there are also some downsides that are carried over from the DFP. First the DFGT has the same stupid L1 R1 buttons behind the wheel which are hard to press under heavy turning (I really hate this). The sequential shifter is also unchanged from the DFP and still feels really cheap. The wheel still does not feel solidly mounted and the grip is still made out of rubber. But fortunately that is about it everything else about this wheel is great.
So why should you buy the DFGT: You like to have the newest of everything, you like new products that are actually better than their predecessors, you do not care about the extra $40, you think people that spend $250 on a wheel are crazy, you like being able to fly through menus with ease, you hate laborious procedures to change settings, you love adjusting the settings of your car while driving, you do not care about the finest quality materials, you like the PS button, you still do not care about the stupid buttons behind the wheel that are really hard to press while turning (I still hate that), you must have precise and responsive feedback, and you like having even more fun.
Pros
-New look
-The best ergonomics of all 3 wheels
-Excellent force feedback (on par with G25)
-New buttons make menus easier
-Adjusting you car's settings in game is very handy
- Better pedals than DFP
-Meant for PS3 and has a PS button
-Works with PS2
Cons
-Still does not have the best build quality
-Some buttons are still retarded (screw you L1 R1)
-Sequential shifter still feels cheap
-Horn doesn't do anything
-No 200 degree turning radius
-Pedal feel does not even come close to that of the G25
The G25 Racing Wheel
While the DFP and GT are great wheels that would easily fit 90% of the demands of most GT fans, the G25 is for those people that want that extra 10%. It is the best there is. While a Porsche is a great car it just can not compare to the prestige and refinement of a Ferrari (sorry Porsche fans it is the sad truth). Just like the Ferrari the G25 is of a higher echelon. Almost (yeah I said almost) everything about it is better than the other wheels. Don't go thinking the G25 is perfect because just like the Ferrari the G25 is not absolutely perfect.
The single biggest problem with the G25 is the price. There really is no other way to say this; the G25 costs $250 (on Amazon). That is a quarter of a grand, $100 more than the DFGT, almost another console, a Wii in fact, something really nice for your spouse or girlfriend, basically a lot of money. If you are considering this wheel you have to be able to take that kind of financial hit for what is basically a toy (I did). Of course there is a reward for those that do not care about the cost. If you have the money though, this should be your only choice.
As soon as you pick up the box for the G25 you can feel the difference. It must weigh a good 10-15lbs. Open the box and the changes are even more apparent, the wheel smells of leather not plastic, the spokes of the wheel are metal, there are actual paddle shifters (THANK YOU GOD!) that are metal, the pedals are metal, there is a clutch, there is a 6 speed shifter (for a change of pace that is made of plastic), there are tons of differences. This is really a different model that the DFP/GT. It just looks like a racing wheel.
The G25's biggest feature is its exclusive inclusion of a clutch. It is one of the only wheels on the market that has a clutch. So unlike the DF series there are three parts to this wheel: the wheel (duh), the pedals (3 peddles left to right: clutch, brake and gas) and the lets call it six speed, gate shifter, button center, control navigation unit (yeah that is the best I can do). This unit has the shifter and 2 clusters of (unmarked buttons) and a d-pad (one cluster looks like the 4 trademark Sony buttons and the other 4 are bellow the d-pad and are in a row). (more on what this means to you latter). This unit also has a knob that lets you change between gated or sequential shifting. The steering wheel also has 2 buttons one on each side of the front. (go to logitech's website for pictures)
So how does the wheel perform? The G25 has less force feedback than the DFP (using GT4/5p) but more than the DFGT. The "precision" or rather how the wheel communicates with you is smidge better than the DFGT. I think that this is due to the greater amount of force feedback and the fact that GT4/5p was not designed around the G25 (more one that latter). The G25 has good force but how it modulates this force is better than the DFGT. When I took the ZO6 back out on Suzuka my time was immediately about .5 seconds quicker. One of the biggest reasons for this is (I have been waiting to say this) THE PADDLE SHIFTERS! It may seem like a small thing but the G25 paddles are easy to press no matter how hard you are turning the wheel or what position your hand is in. The gated shifter/clutch works in GT5p but not GT4. I find the shifter/clutch to be imprecise and hard to use with GT5p. I think that this leads mostly to the fact that GT5p is not programmed for this wheel. In sequential mode, there is no clutch and it operates like the paddle shifters. The pedals are a huge improvement over the DF series wheels. They are all firmer than their predecessors and respond better in game. The brake pedal takes some serious pressure to press down completely. The whole assembly just simply feels better. $100 better? Maybe. To me, yeah. While not getting into any specifics this wheel is meant for the PC and PC racing games. I can say that when this wheel is used with a PC racing sim it is a whole different animal. With a PC game you can adjust the turning radius between 1-900 degrees, increase the force feedback to extreme levels that rival the DFP, and change other various settings. If you are also into PC racing sims there is no other wheel to get. This being said if PD decides to program GT5/p for this wheel and utilize its potential then it will be absolutely worth the asking price. In fact one of the major things that I find missing form GT5p is the lack of support for the G25. Again going back to my father, with a PC game (the game itself is also a factor) he says this wheel is far superior to all the other wheels and is very close to real life.
To build on to this, when you start up GT4/5p and go to the options menu there is a section for the wheels in which you can configure their button layouts and settings. The G25 does appear here. It is still possible to program the buttons but it will take you some time to figure out which is which. This makes the G25 the least ergonomic of all the wheels (for GT4/5p).
So why should you buy this wheel: you have lots of money, you like to spend whatever money you have, when you spend your money you want top quality, you have to have to best of the best, you like the feel of leather, you like shinny metal, precision and performance are very important, you cannot live without real paddle shifters, you feel responsive pedals are important, you think paddle shifters are stupid and want a choice to use a manual setup, you do not care about ergonomic you just want to drive, you like PC racing sims and you like have to most fun possible.
Pros
-Prestige of having the best
-Top notch build quality
-Leather wheel
-Metal paddles and pedals
-PADDLES ARE ACTUAL PADDLES and are fixed in place.
-Best performance of all three wheels
-Great force feedback
-The most accurate handling
-Firm peddles
-Option for sequential shifting or a 6 speed shifter and clutch
-Compatible with all devices
-Works very well with PC sims
-Has great potential
-Also close to real life (says father)
Cons
-Very expensive
-Not programmed for GT4/5p
-6 speed shifter and clutch are not that great
-Least ergonomic
-Realizing you spent $240 on an accessory for a video game
Conclusion
Which wheel to get is up to you but I hope that I have given you some extra knowledge and insight on each wheel. Please tell me if I have made any glaring mistakes in my review so that I may correct them. I ended up sending the DFGT back to Amazon and keeping the G25. Also, if anyone has any other wheels that they have tested with GT4/5p please tell me so that they can become part of this thread. (I have not used the MOMO wheel, Porsche wheel or the Driving Force Wireless) Please tell me what you think andagain if you have the power recommend this thread to become a sticky please do so. I have worked very hard on it.
Thank you.
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