Skip navigation

Sony

PS3 System Updates

Get help with the latest PS3 system update and find out what’s in the firmware in the official PlayStation forum. This is the community to discuss what’s coming with the next PlayStation 3 system update.

1 2 3 ... 44 Previous Next 10567 Views 645 Replies Latest reply: Apr 2, 2010 7:06 PM by shungokusatsu RSS
Jaecyn42 Splicer
Splicer
163 posts since
Mar 29, 2010
Currently Being Moderated

Mar 29, 2010 9:46 PM (Last edited by Jaecyn42 on Apr 2, 2010 7:59 PM)

FW 3.21 and Consumer Right's Law: No Conjecture, Just Facts

Hello all,

,


,

I noticed there was some consternation on this topic, so I thought I'd toss my hat in the ring.  I apologize for creating yet another thread on the subject, but the others had grown trollish enough in tone and tenor that I felt a new one was merited. 

,

 

,

First and foremost, let me fully qualify my opinion on the matter:

,

 

,

I'm not a PS3 user (in fact, I own a 360), so this change does not personally effect me.  I actually created this account for the sole purpose of discussing this issue.

,

 

,

I am, however, a Law Student and an ardent suporter of Consumer Rights (especially in the tech industry), FOSS, net neutrality and that ilk. As such, I have a very strong personal interest in the matter.

,

 

,

That being said, after examining the relevant web content on Sony's website, as well as the FTC's website, I can say with a degree of certainty that the proposed Firmware update WOULD, in fact, violate US Consumer Protection Laws.

,

 

,

My sources:

,

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/guides/baitads-gd.htm

,

http://manuals.playstation.net/document/en/ps3/current/settings/osinstall.html

,

 

,

The case is quite simple.

,

 

,

The FTC defines "advertisement" as "any form of public notice however disseminated or utilized."  In this case, the second Sony owned and maintained website, detailing how to install an alternate OS on a PS3.  In a legal sense, Other OS is an advertisement feature of the applicable models of the Sony PS3.

,


,

As such, Sony is legally obligated to honor that advertisement.  Should they disable Other OS with the oncoming Firmware update, they would be committing an ex post facto "Bait and Switch", according to US Consumer Protection Laws.

,

 

,

This being said, I highly encourage all PS3 users who feel jilted by this change to stick to your guns.  Post in the forums, call their customer service hotline and, should the need arise, find a Class Action suit to join.  Despite what the detractors may say, the law IS, in fact, on your side.

,

 

,

Peace, Love and Empathy,

,

 

,

           Jaecyn42

,

 

,

EDIT:

,

 

,

I decided to add this information to the original post, as it may get lost in the body of the thread.

,

 

,

The FTC's online complaint form:

,

https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/

,

 

,

The Canadian Office of Consumer Affairs' Cosumer Handbook:

,

http://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/oca-bc.nsf/eng/h_ca02349.html

,

 

,

EDIT 2:

,

 

,

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread.  I'm afraid my work here is done, I will be hanging up my PS3 forum account and returning home to my native Ubuntu forums.  Remember what you've learned here.  Read, write, call, file reports with your national consumer protection organization and, if necessary, pursue legal action.  The law is in your side.

,

 

,

Peace, Love and Empathy,

,

    Jaecyn42

,


,


  • Gamer-er Uncharted Territory
    Uncharted Territory
    5,269 posts since
    Jul 31, 2008

    You don't have a Ps3 and just made an account to post this? -.-

  • LegendaryPhoenix Grease Monkey
    Grease Monkey
    1,293 posts since
    Jan 7, 2009

    Considering the feature wasn't actually advertised, you are in fact mistaken. 

    Also the fact that you are just a student, means you only think you know what you are talking about.

     

    /thread

    Legendaryphoenix
  • SirTrigalot Splicer
    Splicer
    212 posts since
    Dec 4, 2006
    you fail. this wasn't Sony's master plan to trick people into buying the system. it was a move due to a hacker that is abusing this feature which could affect everyone.
  • LegendaryPhoenix Grease Monkey
    Grease Monkey
    1,293 posts since
    Jan 7, 2009

    It does not apply in this situation. The feature was removed (will be removed) possibly, due to a security breach. 
    Not for the sake of screwing people over. Which is basically what the bait and switch is.

    Legendaryphoenix
  • ziggurcat I Only Post Everything
    I Only Post Everything
    4,089 posts since
    Jun 19, 2009
    Currently Being Moderated
    7. Mar 29, 2010 10:09 PM (in response to Jaecyn42) (Last edited by ziggurcat on Mar 29, 2010 10:14 PM)
    Re: FW 3.21 and Consumer Right's Law: No Conjecture, Just Facts

     


    Jaecyn42 wrote:

    Hello all,


    I noticed there was some consternation on this topic, so I thought I'd toss my hat in the ring.  I apologize for creating yet another thread on the subject, but the others had grown trollish enough in tone and tenor that I felt a new one was merited. 

     

    First and foremost, let me fully qualify my opinion on the matter:

     

    I'm not a PS3 user (in fact, I own a 360), so this change does not personally effect me.  I actually created this account for the sole purpose of discussing this issue.

     

    I am, however, a Law Student and an ardent suporter of Consumer Rights (especially in the tech industry), FOSS, net neutrality and that ilk. As such, I have a very strong personal interest in the matter.

     

    That being said, after examining the relevant web content on Sony's website, as well as the FTC's website, I can say with a degree of certainty that the proposed Firmware update WOULD, in fact, violate US Consumer Protection Laws.

     

    My sources:

    http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/guides/baitads-gd.htm

    http://manuals.playstation.net/document/en/ps3/current/settings/osinstall.html

     

    The case is quite simple.

     

    The FTC defines "advertisement" as "any form of public notice however disseminated or utilized."  In this case, the second Sony owned and maintained website, detailing how to install an alternate OS on a PS3.  In a legal sense, Other OS is an advertisement feature of the applicable models of the Sony PS3.


    As such, Sony is legally obligated to honor that advertisement.  Should they disable Other OS with the oncoming Firmware update, they would be committing an ex post facto "Bait and Switch", according to US Consumer Protection Laws.

     

    This being said, I highly encourage all PS3 users who feel jilted by this change to stick to your guns.  Post in the forums, call their customer service hotline and, should the need arise, find a Class Action suit to join.  Despite what the detractors may say, the law IS, in fact, on your side.

     

    Peace, Love and Empathy,

     

               Jaecyn42




     

    nice try.  they have never advertised the other OS as a core feature.  doesn't count.  

     

     

  • ZidaneRick Cannon Fodder
    Cannon Fodder
    11 posts since
    Nov 16, 2009

    People aren't looking at this the way the court's will.

     

    Sony isn't removing OtherOS, they are removing the Online Services of the Console if people decide to keep OtherOS which is their choice.

     

    Sony can remove the online services at any time, for any reason. The only way for this to get anywhere in the courts is to start a Class Action started and get a Judge that is familiar with the Playstation to begin with so you can set a precedent.

     

    Bait and Switch would only apply if Sony was removing the feature from every console (including current and past firmware updates)

     

    As much as I want OtherOS to stay I really think the law is on Sony's side with this one, especially with the stupid DMCA protecting their intellectual rights.

  • Spider-greg Calculating status... 5 posts since
    Mar 29, 2010

    Don't you think Sony, being a giant company, already have their own legal advisors to advice them on this matter?

    And they went ahead with it anyway which means yes, they can actually do it.

     

    Nice try but no, your trolling won't work.

    Even geohotz had this to say


    Legally, they may be within their right to do so, but we have to show them it's the wrong move for the future of the product and the company.

  • ziggurcat I Only Post Everything
    I Only Post Everything
    4,089 posts since
    Jun 19, 2009

     


    Jaecyn42 wrote:

    From the FTC's website:

     

    Sec. 238.4 Switch after sale.

    No practice should be pursued by an advertiser, in the event of sale of the advertised product, of "unselling" with the intent and purpose of selling other merchandise in its stead. Among acts or practices which will be considered in determining if the initial sale was in good faith, and not a stratagem to sell other merchandise, are:

    (a) Accepting a deposit for the advertised product, then switching the purchaser to a higher-priced product,

    (b) Failure to make delivery of the advertised product within a reasonable time or to make a refund,

    (c) Disparagement by acts or words of the advertised product, or the disparagement of the guarantee, credit terms, availability of service, repairs, or in any other respect, in connection with it,

    (d) The delivery of the advertised product which is defective, unusable or impractical for the purpose represented or implied in the advertisement. [Guide 4]

     

    http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/guides/baitads-gd.htm

     

    This situation verily does apply to the FTC's law on Bait and Switch, particularly the language in bullets (b) and (c).

     

    Like it, or not, Sony is obligated by law to keep the Other OS function on models which it has advertised (according the FTC's definition of advertisement) as having that function.  To do otherwise would be a failure to deliver the advertised product and a disparagement of the guarantee made by Sony in that advertisement.

     

     


     

    again, nice try.  you're taking something that only applies to the initial sale of the product completely out of context.

     

  • LegendaryPhoenix Grease Monkey
    Grease Monkey
    1,293 posts since
    Jan 7, 2009

    Ah, so funny to watch this law student try so very hard to try and make sense.

    Legendaryphoenix
1 2 3 ... 44 Previous Next

Actions

More Like This

  • Retrieving data ...

Bookmarked By (0)